A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

In context of the ASOIAF world I have no problems with Tyrion's murder of Tywin. His murder of Shae is obviously immoral, though.

 

Eh, I don't think Shae was coerced. Shae, like Bronn and others (even Tyrion a lot of the time), is a pragmatist. I believe she truly loved, or at least had deep affection for, Tyrion - but when he cut off their affair he not only broke her heart, but also cut their ties so that she needed another sugar daddy - which in the context of the world of ASoIaF is the same as saying she needed to survive. And who can blame her for that? She was taking a big risk all along to bank on Tyrion, which is why I think she truly cared for him. People can condemn Shae but she was doing the same thing as most other people in this world. She took the steps she needed to survive, which meant selling her body, but she also had a personal code of honor. She did not violate that (give up her loyalty to Tyrion) until he broke with her, thus nullifying their agreement. She humiliated him -but he humiliated her first. The only step she took further was to participate in getting him a death sentence, which she probably figured he was headed for anyway and her testimony gave her a chance to slap Tyrion in the face for his rejection, and seal her to Tywin. Though she'd have been a fool to count on him for very long. Which I imagine she knew. Where they all erred was underestimating Tyrion -and isn't that why we all love him?

 

I don't think that Shae deserved her fate, but Tywin definitely did, for everything he did in general, and for what he did to Tysha and Tyrion specifically - especially in the world of Westeros, where he was extremely unlikely to ever be punished in any other way, or at least removed from power any time soon.

 

EW reports that the show is looking to film in Spain (more specifically, Andalusia) for season 5. Dorne would be the obvious guess.

 

Oh joy. Dorne. That's everyone's favorite.

 

I really hope they find a way to make that segment of the story interesting. As it stands, I'm bracing for the worst.

 

Men call me Dark Star, and I am of the night!

 

This is where the story gets confusing for me. With all the meandering plot lines never seeming to get anywhere after this point. Once Tyrion gets done with his evil deeds there is nothing I look forward to.

 

This may be a situation where a TV format actually benefits the story. Many book purists dislike the way the show has glossed over what some may conisder more critical story threads than others in an attempt to fit a thick plotline into ten hours per season. Cutting out the chaffe from Feast and Dance and conentrating on the more significant plotlines may reorganize the flotsam in these books to something a bit more coherent. I think they've done a generally fantastic job so far - no reason to think they can't make it work next season.

 

So would anyone like to predict what gets left out of AFFC & ADWD?

 

If there's one big storyline they cut, I bet it'll be the Ironborn stuff.

They're going to shoot in Spain to stand in for Dorne, so apparently they will do the Dorne storyline.

The real question is what they're going to do with Dany. They may run out of book material for her this season. Come to think of it, they'll be out of Theon stuff, too. And what about Sansa? I don't think there's much left of her story, either.

My money is on a couple big revelations at season's end: Catelyn's resurrection as Lady Stoneheart and Stannis' arrival at the Wall.

So, what storylines do they have at least a season's worth of book material remaining? Tyrion in exile, they could easily get 1-2 seasons out of. Same for Arya in Braavos. The Dorne stuff, maybe a season. Brienne and Pod can be another season. There's definitely enough material for one more season of the Wall, maybe 2 if they stretch it. I don't remember anything very interesting happening in King's Landing in ADWD, but then the show has expanded out Margaery's character substantially so it may be their intention to have next season be the Cersei vs. Margaery power play--FOR TOMMEN'S HEART/SOUL! There's a season's worth of dreadfully boring Ironborn/Kingsmoot hoohah, if they want to use it. I'm not convinced there's enough Bran material to be worth more than occasional visits. Oh, and we have the whole thing with Sam taking Gilly and Aemon to Oldtown. I actually want to see that. Plus Davos at White Harbor.

So, they definitely have enough book material to pull out another season or two, but for some storylines they're going to have to wing it because they're running out very soon. I am somewhat bothered by this because when the show's writers fill in the blanks, it's very hit and miss.

 

Yes, I've been thinking that the reason why Balon Greyjoy is still alive in the TV show (so much for the power of king's blood) is so they can avoid all that Kings Moot stuff.

I assume they'll keep Tyrion's exile but I wonder if they'll keep that female dwarf character, given that she and her brother weren't at the Purple Wedding. Of course, they could bring her in and keep the story about her brother being murdered in place of Tyrion and just avoid the 'small world syndrome' of her having been at Joffrey's wedding.

I'm wondering if they'll send the Hound to Braavos with Arya to keep him around? Or even team him up with Tyrion in place of Jorah?

 

I'm sure they will be really struggling how to make a region/storyine full of hot, scantilly clad, sexually liberated women (and a few men) appealing to the HBO viewers...

Why do fans think they will make these kind of absurd, pointless changes that would completely fuck up characters and their entire storyline? I don't even know where to begin with all the reasons why this is a terrible idea. Maybe not the worst and most absurd fan idea of this kind I've seen in this fandom (that honor belongs to "Yara will take the place of Jeyne Poole") but it's the second worst, or shares that place with "Oberyn will survive the duel and play Quentyn's role".

Not to mention, why? For heaven's sake, why? Why would anyone think that they'll do anything else with Sandor than what the books have, i.e. have him badly wounded (already half done now) and have Arya leave him, going to Braavos to study to be a Faceless Man, while his fate remains ambiguous for the time being. If he has no further role to play in the series (which I don't believe at all), they could even kill him, but since I think he does, he'll just be absent for a while, chilling somewhere, not necessarily at the Quiet Isle (I can see them changing that) but at some other place that's conveniently in/very close to the Vale, until the time comes when his story picks up again.

 

God, I hope so. I can't stand the Ironborn.

 

I think it's going to be rather integral to the big plot arc...

 

I'm sure they will be. But for now I find them all completely tedious and a waste of precious pages that could be used elsewhere.

 

Gee, calm down, I didn't insult your mother, I wondered about a possible change they might make to a fictional character in a TV adaptation of a book.

They've admitted that they've expanded Bronn's role because he's a fan-fave. They've kept Theon onscreen while he's off page in the books (albeit that he's having much the same thing happen to him). They swapped Gendry for Edric Storm and look like they might develop a new sub-plot with Stannis' daughter.

I just wonder if they might do something similar with The Hound. He's very popular with the audience, in particular with his team-up with Arya. He kinda wanders off page in the books and, his apparent cameo as the gravedigger aside, that's it. I'm just wondering - not thinking, not saying it will happen, just wondering - if the writers of the TV show might worry that audiences will find this a little anticlimactic. And Sandor did say to Arya that he might go across the sea and become a sellsword. So I just wondered - if that's okay with you - if that was setting up a possible storyline. I'm quite happy to be proven wrong and I've nothing particularly invested in this theory but I don't see the harm in speculating.

 

The descriptions of food. Tyrion watching turtles. Dany's diarrhea.

There's little enough actual story in both books that they should be able to fit everything into season 5 with room to spare. Particularly since they've gotten a head start on that content this season.

 

They can't leave out the diarrhoea! CANON VIOLATION!!!

 

A casting call for season five has been leaked. This is not necessarily an exhaustive list of new characters, so absences don't yet mean any storylines or characters are being dropped, but they're definitely including:

Doran Martell
Trystane Martell (aged up to 18; some are speculating he'll be merged in some way with Quentyn)
Areo Hotah
Obara, Nymeria, and Tyene Sand
the High Sparrow
Septa Unella
Maggy the Frog(!)
Lollys Stokeworth
Yezzan (Tyrion's owner from ADWD)
the waif from the House of Black and White