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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old November 23 2013, 03:14 AM   #16
borgboy
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Re: Pon Farr in Trek lit

I think the implication of pon farr suggests that Vulcans don't have sex outside of pon farr, but it's vague and open to interpretation. I prefer to think that's not the case, and there's plenty of Trek lit that suggests otherwise, although off the top of my head, the examples I can think of are female Vulcans with alien lovers (T'Prynn, Selar) and those are with another woman and a hermaphrodite. Not that that means anything.
As has been mentioned in another thread, Selar's brother is condemned by their father for having a male partner when he doesn't go thru pon farr, which both suggests Vulcans can have sex without pon farr upon them, and that at least some Vulcans condemn those that do.
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Old November 23 2013, 03:29 AM   #17
nureintier
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Re: Pon Farr in Trek lit

I've always wondered what would happen if, say, a vulcan kid was raised by humans/romulans/etc and never suppressed their emotions. Would they still experience pon farr if they experienced emotions like non vulcans did?
There was a short documentary thing on it I saw which suggested it was the direct result of emotional suppression. To me, that suggests that if they did not suppress their emotions, they would be having sex for the same reasons and with the same regularity as other species.

I don't like the idea of homosexual Vulcans not going through pon farr, either, that makes no sense to me. From other sources I don't think it's just about mating, but also a sort of resurgence of all the repressed emotions from the previous seven years. The whole point of the emotional suppression stuff, as I understand it, was because Vulcans had such strong emotions to begin with so they had to control them, so I imagine that, in some way, it'd be extremely difficult to suppress them and they would be bound to override all the mental disciplines here and there, and pon farr allows for that.

But now I realize I haven't read much on the subject and feel like buying more books.

Edited to add that this topic actually did just cause me to buy a few used books on amazon. ^_^

Last edited by nureintier; November 23 2013 at 03:52 AM.
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Old November 23 2013, 06:00 AM   #18
Avro Arrow
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Re: Pon Farr in Trek lit

nureintier wrote: View Post
I've always wondered what would happen if, say, a vulcan kid was raised by humans/romulans/etc and never suppressed their emotions. Would they still experience pon farr if they experienced emotions like non vulcans did?
There was a short documentary thing on it I saw which suggested it was the direct result of emotional suppression.
There's a documentary on pon farr?
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Old November 23 2013, 06:04 AM   #19
nureintier
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Re: Pon Farr in Trek lit

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post

There's a documentary on pon farr?
Well, a short video thingy, anyway:
http://www.startrek.com/watch_video/...eo-documentary

I watched TSFS again recently and decided I didn't totally understand pon farr and spent an evening researching.
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Old November 23 2013, 06:21 AM   #20
Avro Arrow
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Re: Pon Farr in Trek lit

^ Ah, OK, I see what you mean. My bad for thinking along the lines of Discovery Channel Presents: Pon Farr: A Look Inside the Madness...

Thanks for the link! There are some videos in there that I'll need to check out...
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Old November 23 2013, 06:28 AM   #21
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Pon Farr in Trek lit

borgboy wrote: View Post
As has been mentioned in another thread, Selar's brother is condemned by their father for having a male partner when he doesn't go thru pon farr, which both suggests Vulcans can have sex without pon farr upon them, and that at least some Vulcans condemn those that do.
Despite how enlightened and intelligent the Vulcans are, they have very Victorian attitudes towards sex, so it is not inconceivable that there would be some more "traditionalist" elements that would looked down upon Vulcans who engaged in: sex with aliens, sex outside of pon farr, sex with the same gender. That would've made a little more sense than for some unexplained reason Selar's gay brother is immune to his impulses.

Just a thought.
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Old November 23 2013, 06:51 AM   #22
nureintier
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Re: Pon Farr in Trek lit

borgboy wrote: View Post
I think the implication of pon farr suggests that Vulcans don't have sex outside of pon farr, but it's vague and open to interpretation. I prefer to think that's not the case, and there's plenty of Trek lit that suggests otherwise, although off the top of my head, the examples I can think of are female Vulcans with alien lovers (T'Prynn, Selar) and those are with another woman and a hermaphrodite. Not that that means anything.
Regarding ability to have sex: I'm not sure where the information comes from for this book (I'm assuming it's gathered from novels, but I haven't read all the ones in question), but in the book "The Vulcan language" by Mark Gardner it says that Vulcan males are able to have sex at any time, the difference with pon farr being that they MUST do so at that time to avoid madness and death. Likewise, it says Vulcan females are fertile and able to mate all the time. Doesn't mention homosexuality.

Also says that, after the marriage ceremony, the matriarch presiding over the ceremony watches them consummate their marriage. 0_o

All right, now I've spent entirely too much time today contemplating the sex lives of Vulcans...
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Old November 23 2013, 10:53 AM   #23
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Re: Pon Farr in Trek lit

D.C. Fontana's interpretation has always been that Vulcans are capable of sex at any time, and pon farr is just the time when the drive overwhelms them and it becomes a matter of compulsion rather than choice. The Trip-T'Pol relationship in ENT would seem to prove this canonically. And "All Our Yesterdays" also supports it.
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Old November 23 2013, 02:46 PM   #24
borgboy
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Re: Pon Farr in Trek lit

Wow, that is bizarre about the matriarch watching the marriage being consummated.
I agree that Vulcans can, and clearly some do, have sex outside of pon farr. Who am I to disagree with D.C. Fontana?
For what it's worth, Selar's brother was pretty emotional for a Vulcan. He seemed like the most well adjusted Vulcan I remember "seeing", which could be an alternate explanation for why he didn't go thru pon farr. I'm treating that as an individual situation that he specifically doesn't go thru pon farr instead of the wider suggestion that all gay Vulcans, or at least the males, don't go thru pon farr.
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Old November 23 2013, 07:39 PM   #25
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Re: Pon Farr in Trek lit

nureintier wrote: View Post
Also says that, after the marriage ceremony, the matriarch presiding over the ceremony watches them consummate their marriage. 0_o
borgboy wrote: View Post
Wow, that is bizarre about the matriarch watching the marriage being consummated.
Something like this was actually done in medieval Europe, at least with kings, since the consummation of marriage was important for determining inheritance and the legality of marriage.
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Old November 23 2013, 08:13 PM   #26
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Re: Pon Farr in Trek lit

I remember reading, I think it was France that used to have an audience watch the marriage consummated. Other countries may have done it too.
I know that the French queens gave birth with an audience to make sure that an infertile queen didn't sneak a fostered child into the line to the throne.
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