Keiko was absolutely right to refuse to teach religion in the classroom. Kids should learn science in school and religion in sunday school, and it would be a disservice to the children's right to form their own ideas about the universe to confuse the two.
My main thought is that Phlox is way wrong with his weird interpretation and refusing to help the Valakians based on that, especially when he had the cure already. But let's say Archer offered a compromise such as, "We have the cure, but we're concerned about how you're treating the Menk, If you allow them to live (if they choose) where the land is fertile, and not restrict them to live in compounds anymore, then we will give it to you." But--what if they absolutely refused? Would they still deserve the cure? Kieko was right in not wanting to mix personal beliefs and superstition with history and science. And kai Winn was obviously an extremist and over reacted to the whole thing. I think the show intended to portray Kieko as being in the right and that she was being bullied for taking an ethical stand. But the way it actually ended up looking? Keiko was being unnecessarily inconsiderate and insensitive. She wouldn't even compromise in the smallest bit, just to diffuse the situation.
There is an excellent essay in one of the later Best of Trek books called "The Disappearing Bum" that speculates on the possible consequences of the bum's death. The author looks at it this way: When Kirk and crew went to find George and Gracie in the 1980s (no mention of Janeway & crew in the '90s because this was pre-Voyager), why weren't they mobbed by adoring Star Trek fans? The answer goes all the way back to the disappearing bum. The author speculates that the bum had a family to take care of, and when he never came back from stealing the milk, his family concluded that he'd abandoned them. The oldest boy was forced to become the man of the family, before he was really ready to be a grownup. He and the rest had a hard life, and as the years went by, the boy grew into a bitter man who got along as best he could with an incomplete education and not much formal work experience. He drifted across the country, turning to crime, and one night in the early 1950s, he had an encounter with a Los Angeles police officer named Gene Roddenberry - a fatal encounter. The Gene Roddenberry in this timeline died many years before he ever created Star Trek - and thus there were no adoring fans present during the events of the fourth TOS movie. That's but one person's speculation about what effect, if any, the bum's death might have had on history. I'm sure there have been many others. I agree with Melakon's assessment. Kai Winn should have arranged for a Bajoran religious class to be taught on the space station and left the science class alone. The episode says nothing whatsoever about McCoy having any kind of contact with Edith after saving her. He does in the Crucible novel (I'm re-reading that now), but that novel isn't canon. And I don't understand where you get the 'second driver' from. Why should the driver be different? So what? It wasn't a Bajoran school, and it wasn't the Bajoran equivalent of Sunday school. If Kai Winn wanted the kids to learn about the Prophets, she should have sent them to wherever it is the Bajoran kids go to learn about that. It was the ship he and his crew knew the best, in terms of what its capabilities were. I doubt a private yacht would come with the phasers, shields, other defenses, plus advanced computer capabilities they needed. Yep. I once taught an astronomy class to a roomful of Grade 3 and 4 kids (during my B.Ed. practicum). This was at a public school, but since Red Deer is in one of the bible belt regions of this country, the teacher felt it was perfectly appropriate to force the kids (and me) to start the day with the Lord's Prayer - and she hadn't intended to teach astronomy at all. The reason it happened was because she offered me the chance to teach a science class and astronomy was what I knew best. Things went well until the Q&A time, and then one of the kids asked how the Universe began, and that led to a question about God... and here's me, a first-year atheist education student whose supervising teacher had the say of whether or not I'd pass the course and get to stay in the program - and she was already unethical enough to force religion on kids in a public school. I know what I wanted to say, but had to dance all around it in this situation. Finally I told them that for questions about God, they should ask their parents. So in the case of this episode, I applaud Keiko's refusal to back down.
I'm comfortable that Scotty wouldn't so badly sabotage the Excelsior that the Excelsior's crew couldn't fix it in time to deliver the much-needed supplies to Gamma Epsilon IV in time. And the Enterprise wasn't going to be used for anything again anyway.
It was just a school on Bajorian property, with a mostly Bajorian student body. Kia Winn wasn't asking for Keiko to give a religious lesson, she was asking for the use of local terms and names.
Thanks. Never seen it. And after reading the comments here and the synopsis at Memory Alpha, I never will.
She wanted Keiko to call the wormhole aliens by a religious term that carried all kinds of religious connotations with it, and go easy with the science. That makes about as much sense as me using the Old Testament to teach my astronomy class instead of using real science texts.
At my school, religion and 'other subjects' were kept segregated. In primary school we had a seperate lesson called 'Scripture' which taught us religion, whereas in High School we had no formal teaching of religion at all, but a chaplain was on hand during school hours for those kids who wanted guidance in those matters. I see both sides of the Kai Winn thing, but I do tend to think Keiko over-reacted. Sure, Winn shouldn't have stepped in and started trying to impose herself on Keiko's cirriculum, and Winn's demand that Keiko simply stop teaching the kids about the Wormhole entirely was ludicrous. But on the other hand the majority of Keiko's class were Bajorian citizens, as evidenced by the fact that the class is practically empty once the parents start pulling their kids out. The best solution would obviously have been to get both sides together to work out a mutually beneficial outcome, but Keiko was the one who resisted that. And then Winn went and had the school blown up. So, ultimately I think both sides are as bad as each other.
So Religious Person demands (of a teacher in a non-religious school) that creation be taught along with evolution in science class. Teacher says no. Religious Person then demands that science be dropped from the curriculum entirely. Teacher says no. Religious Person then blows the school up. And it's the teacher who's in the wrong here? I don't damn well think so.
^ No, you've completely misunderstood what I said. I never once said it was all Keiko's fault! I said that both sides have their faults and inabilities to see the other side's point-of-view, and it's that more than anything else which creates the conflict between them. Winn and Keiko both shoulder some responsibility for their own inflexibilities. Keiko absolutely believes that the children should be taught hard science, which is correct in her mind. And Winn absolutely believes they should not, which is correct in her mind. Frankly, this is why a middle ground solution needed to be found... but neither side (Keiko OR Winn) was willing to budge. Okay, so, I think that at the very least, Vedek Winn is within her rights to request that alternative secular schooling should be provided for any Bajorian families who wish to exercise that option. That isn't an unreasonable request. And given that we're told Bajorian families have pulled out from the school, but aren't told where they actually went, then maybe that's exactly what happens. Which doesn't automatically mean all Bajorian families must do so. Simply those who believe along the same wacky fundamentalist lines as Winn -- in fact, we are presented in the same episode with a much more moderate Vedek, Bariel, who is more open to allowing people the ability to choose whatever floats their boat (although accepts that is is not politicially prudent to do so publically). So, we know that the Bajorian society is complex enough to accept all sorts of different viewpoints on this issue, and although they might be in a minority, there are probably other Bajorians who don't think the Phophets are "all that", and might not even care much for the whole Emissary thing. They live on a world that is presented to us from a fundamentally religious viewpoint, but that doesn't mean that all Bajorians are fanatically religious nuts like Vedek Winn is. In quoting Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations, I would argue that Winn has got a right to express her view. But torching the school and trying to have Bariel knocked off, those actions show absolutely what a crazy bitch she really was. She loses whatever shaky moral high ground she thought she was gaining.
Did you actually read my post immediately above yours before you posted that, or was it that important that you just needed to get your on, as quickly as possible? I think I've adequately (and politely) explained why I think both sides are inflexible on the issue. Whether you disagree with me about that interpretation of events is down to you, but I'll thank you not to start any of that 'rolling eyes' business.
The claim that both sides "are as bad as each other" is utterly indefensible. Being "just as inflexible" is not the same thing. Being inflexible in the face of something wrong can be a good thing.
Nevertheless, I had fully intended to use "as bad as each other" as merely a flippant short-hand for them both being "inflexible". I admit, my use of language in the first instance may have made it appear that I was arguing something which I was not. I certainly never once claimed Keiko was to blame (as Timewalker completely incorrectly said that I did), nor did I seriously mean to infer that Winn's actions are 1/1 equitable to Keiko's (they are NOT, and I think I have subsequently cleared that up, for anyone who is still in any doubt what my position actually is).
Pivoting to paint both sides in a conflict as equally bad is a well-known rhetorical tactic employed by the side that really is the bad one. So, if you are retracting your claim that both sides are equally bad there, then my work here on this point is done.
I will be the oddball and say I found it to be a mostly charming episode. I thought Bashir was pushing too hard too fast, but he backed off in the end. I do think there was some potential there for a future relationship after she had some time to go away and get her bearings. I would have enjoyed seeing that or some sort of follow-up. She was somewhat of a Cinderella.
FWIW, in the earlier drafts of the script the Guardian(s) say this... 1ST GUARDIAN Time is elastic. It will revert to its original shape when changes are minor. Also that... 1ST GUARDIAN But in each time period there is a focal point. An object, a person, something that is indispensible to the normal flow of time. Unimportant otherwise, but as a catalyst... As to the death of "Rodent", in the early drafts this was said about the death of "Trooper", who was likewise killed by a phaser... 1ST GUARDIAN He was negligible... He counted. But not enough. Not in the eternal flow, the greater river. So, whether or not it's in the aired episode, the idea behind the Guardian makes it clear that some changes matter more than others. Mess with the "focal point" and the result is a catastrophic, but other objects and persons "counted" but "not enough".
In "Operation: Annihilate!", the entire population of Deneva is, presumably, blinded for no good reason. Unintentional (and the science is ludicrously turned on its head, with visible light being the blinding light and UV somehow being "good", non-blinding light [of course either will blind if intense enough, but UV will do it a lot faster than mid-spectrum visible]), but it must have happened. And why? Because CMO McCoy--and Science Officer Spock--didn't think to try different wavelengths? Really?! Sheesh. But that's what we're left with.