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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old October 11 2014, 09:24 PM   #91
Memory Alpha
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

The Masterpiece Society is a relatively decent examination of xenophobia and eugenics. I don't like it per se, but I don't dislike it as I guess many do.

Genesis is awesome - there is some great makeup in that.

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I'm a fan of The Hunted. I just really like the chase sequence. I think it's maligned because of the strangeness of the ending, how they just kind of get up and leave.

Naked Now didn't really succeed in being funny.

Here's the thing about Code of Honor. Clearly, they should have done more than one episode with an alien race that has dark skin. And the one episode that called for an extremely paternalistic, misogynist culture where women are the property of men and can become so just through a successful ritualized kidnapping is the one episode where it occurred to them to give the aliens dark skin. It does seem suspicious that this may be an association the writers had in their heads. They read the script and it's the first image that came to their minds.
Agree on all that. With regard to The Hunted, I read that there had been planned a bigger, more ambiguous ending, but they ran out of time and money.

Racist might be a strong word to describe Code of Honor, but it is clearly backward, IMO, and you sum up the problem with it quite well. It struck me as something that would have come out of the 1940s, honestly.

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Old October 12 2014, 02:52 AM   #92
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I also like "Man of the People"; crazy Troi is terrifying , and I love the scene where she verbally destroys the ensign.
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Old October 12 2014, 03:53 AM   #93
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I quite like "The ROyale." It's very old-school Star Trek and just plain fun, despite being rather awful.
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Old October 12 2014, 03:57 AM   #94
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Memory Alpha wrote: View Post
Racist might be a strong word to describe Code of Honor, but it is clearly backward, IMO, and you sum up the problem with it quite well. It struck me as something that would have come out of the 1940s, honestly.
I think Memory Alpha's analysis is close to on the money with regards to how I see the episode - the writer/director seemed to me, to be emulating the sort of pulp adventure stories from the early 20th century, and unintentionally ended up emulating less desirable sensibilities of the time in the process. Other than that, and the sexism, it's ok I guess. I thought the bit where they turned on the laser fence for the obligatory fight scene was cool when I was a kid.

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
I honestly don't see the racism in Code of Honor that many others apparently do.
I think what sparked some people's opinions towards the episode was this little tidbit from Wil Wheaton in one of his TNG reviews:

Sparks McGee wrote:
I've read that the Ligonians were not explicitly described as entirely African American in the script, but were cast that way at the behest of director Russ Mayberry, who apparently went on to be so offensively racist and treated the actors so poorly that Gene fired him before the episode was completed and handed the directing responsibilities over to then – First AD Les Landau.
If you believe this story, it's definitely enough to color one's opinions on the episode. That, and many Trek cast and crew members have a generally poor opinion of the episode. More than enough to influence fan opinion over the years:

Many members of the production staff, including Tracy Tormé and Jonathan Frakes, objected to the casting of all the Ligonians seen in "Code of Honor" as racist, especially as they were portrayed in stereotypically "tribal" roles.
As noted in the TNG Companion, Tracy Tormé was embarrassed by what he called a "1940s tribal Africa" view of Africans in the episode.
Jonathan Frakes referred to the episode as a "racist piece of shit" [3]. At a 2007 science fiction convention in Toronto, Canada, he told the audience, "The worst and most embarrassing and one that even Gene would have been embarrassed by was that horrible racist episode from the first season... Code of Honor, oh my God in heaven!"
In a 2012 interview with TrekMovie.com, Brent Spiner recalled, "It ["Code of Honor"] was just a racist episode. Maybe not intentionally but it felt that way and looked that way. It was the third episode so it was fortuitous that we did our worst that early on and it never got quite that bad again."
Star Trek: Voyager actor Garrett Wang said this episode "stinks" to which LeVar Burton agreed, adding "without question", at a Star Trek panel at DragonCon 2010.
At the 2013 Toronto Comic Con's "An Evening With the Cast of Star Trek: The Next Generation", Michael Dorn referred to this episode as "the worst episode of Star Trek ever filmed" to agreement from the rest of the cast and the crowd.

space so the bottom part of this post doesnt get eaten by the top because it's a segue


Karzak wrote: View Post
I quite like "The ROyale." It's very old-school Star Trek and just plain fun, despite being rather awful.
I have to say I have quite a soft spot for The Royale. The basic concept was workable, just the execution was a little bungled. Like many Season 1 episodes.
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Old October 13 2014, 03:23 AM   #95
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I loved some of the lines from The Royale parodying really bad literature.

"No dame's worth dying for."
"DON'T CALL HER THAT!"
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Old October 13 2014, 05:17 AM   #96
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

The Royale had one of my favorite Trek scores, the Jazz tune they were playing when Data was playing Craps. I hate most of the Scores in Star Trek so that says something about the episode right there. Also, it's just a real fun episode.
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Old October 21 2014, 10:01 PM   #97
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I never realized how hated "Genesis" was until I joined a few online communities. I always enjoyed it. Season 7 is one of my favorites, and it gets ripped pretty bad by TNG critics.
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Old October 21 2014, 10:41 PM   #98
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I loved some of the lines from The Royale parodying really bad literature.

"No dame's worth dying for."
"DON'T CALL HER THAT!"
"It was a dark and stormy night...." Nuff said
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Old October 21 2014, 10:43 PM   #99
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Worf'sParmach wrote: View Post
I never realized how hated "Genesis" was until I joined a few online communities.
Fun to watch, just don't think too hard about the premise.
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Old October 21 2014, 11:14 PM   #100
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

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Old October 21 2014, 11:18 PM   #101
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

"We'll Always Have Paris". The time displacement moments and concept do it for me, but the romance plot and holodeck recreation are things I could do without. Never a big fan of Casablanca either, except for the La Marseillaise scene and final scenes.
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Old October 21 2014, 11:32 PM   #102
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Dr. Sevrin wrote: View Post
"We'll Always Have Paris". The time displacement moments and concept do it for me, but the romance plot and holodeck recreation are things I could do without. Never a big fan of Casablanca either, except for the La Marseillaise scene and final scenes.
I've always liked "We'll Always Have Paris", even the cheesy romance part of the episode works. Gives us some background on Picard. Though I find it odd how many characters have dumped women for Starfleet without telling them: Decker, Picard, Riker.
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Old October 21 2014, 11:43 PM   #103
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

BillJ wrote: View Post
Though I find it odd how many characters have dumped women for Starfleet without telling them: Decker, Picard, Riker.
I suppose it's more of that naval imagery thing, where fictional heroes become sailors to get out of a relationship. I've always been mildly surprised Roddenberry didn't pattern what became Starfleet more after the Air Force though. But maybe that's because a lot of scifi that came before did.
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Old October 22 2014, 02:35 AM   #104
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I honestly never knew there was a problem with Sub Rosa until I encountered complaints on the internet, and i remember watching it first air in Australia (by that i mean when my folks hired it from the video store).

Yes, it's not the best TNG story, but it's kinda like them trying to explain an Edgar Allen Poe story with science fiction, so for me, it's easily watchable again.

Code of Honor is another, i didn't really get the racist thing when i was a kid (couple it as Australia never had colour discrimination and when it first aired i was about 5). It had Yar kicking ass and death gauntlets, so that sold me on it.

I like every other episode of TNG, i can't think of any that are supposedly bad, i enjoy them all.
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