If we look at TOS and the TMP era, how many classes of Federation starships-of-the-line do we actually see, or can logically extrapolate, from canon? Here's what I come up with: Star cruisers, commonly referred to as Constitution-class ships (ex: Enterprise, Enterprise-A, NCC-1764 Defiant, Exeter, etc.) Frigates (or lesser cruisers), commonly referred to as Mirandas (ex: Reliant, Saratoga) Scouts/science vessels, commonly referred to as Oberths (ex: Grissom) Advanced or super-heavy cruisers, commonly referred to as Excelsior-class ships (ex: Excelsior, Enterprise-B) It is also possible we could retcon two other starship class that was not seen in TOS or the TOS-derived movies, but was said to originate in the TMP-era by canon stories in TNG: Unknown quad-nacelle ships, known as Constellation-class (ex: Hathaway, Stargazer). As these were never seen or mentioned in TOS, they could have possibly originated in the TMP era. Unknown two-nacelle heavy-duty Miranda variant, known as the Soyuz-class (ex: Bozeman) There is also the loose suggestion that there are freighters and/or transport-tugs. TAS and TOS-R muddied the waters a bit on this one, so we could possibly include a freighter type, or two, or more... Is this it? Are there any other canon Starfleet starship-of-the-line classes?
The only canonical designations from TOS and TMP for Starfleet vessels are "Heavy Cruiser" (seen on a display in STIII to represent the TMP Enterprise, although the actual graphic is the TOS Enterprise from FJ's Tech Manual), and "scout" (used verbally to describe both the Grissom and the two FJ scouts Columbia and Revere, although their existence as the FJ designs are debatable as we never actually saw them on screen). There's never been any canonical evidence that the Mirandas are referred to as frigates, nor that the Miranda, Constitution, or Excelsior classes are referred to as anything other than starships of the same type (except for the aforementioned heavy cruiser designation, but for all we know both the Miranda and Excelsior classes are heavy cruisers too).
And we never saw a scout. So? The dreadnought Entente is auditory canon, as is her registry. Her being of the Federation class is extracanonical speculation or whatever. Timo Saloniemi
Yup, the same woman who announces the scouts Columbia and Revere states the Entente by name, registry and type (dreadnought). Missed that one in my first post.
The Constitution-class Heavy Cruiser The Miranda-class Heavy Frigate The Oberth-class Science Vessel/Surveyor The Constellation class, which I believe commonly described as some sort of Explorer. The Excelsior-class Heavy Cruiser/Battleship The Soyuz-class Attack Frigate Also the Federation-class Dreadnaught, which not only was licensed material, but the schematics were also said to have been seen on screen. Ditto for the Saladin-class Destroyer and Hermes sub-class Scout, the schematics of which were definitely displayed on screen (or at least one of them). I think that the same thing also goes for the Ptolemy-class Transport/Tug. However, whether or not these were refitted like the Constitution was never stated in canon.
Where in canon was it ever stated or seen that these were the designations for these ships? (other than the Heavy Cruiser designation for the Constitution class) The schematics for the Saladin, Hermes and Ptolemy classes from FJ's Tech Manual were used as background displays; however there was no sight or mention of their class names or types.
The OP of this thread is about canon ships actually seen in the drama, not unseen ships derived from non-canon literature.
Does on-screens on-screen count? If so, then the FJ stuff used in TMP I - III should count, at leas tin form if not necessarily designation. --Alex
On-screens doesn't really mean anything, because we don't know the context of what is being studied on the video display. If we wound up taking literature and video displays too seriously, we would believe that there are huge ducks and airplanes strategically placed within the various decks of the Enterprise-D. Same goes for radio/intercom chatter. Some of the background bridge chatter in TOS was nonsense so we have to take these background items with a grain of salt.
So no, we don't actually see the Columbia, Revere, and Entente on screen, but logically extrapolating, the scout and dreadnought types exist, because the woman stated onscreen that they exist. Now do those ships look like the FJ designs they were taken from? Canonically the answer is no, as they were not seen on screen. (Although the schematics for the Saladin/Hermes and Ptolemy classes were seen as background displays, they were not used in context with the aforementioned ships).
Although I always assumed the Entente was either the FJ manual Dreadnought or the variation from the Dreadnought! novel, since Into Darkness, I have wondered if TMP's Starfleet operated massive black Vengeance-style ships.
Well, I happen to think that they look exactly like how they were depicted in the tech manual, because that was the obvious intent at the time. However, I'll be the first to say that intent means nothing in canon Trek these days.
I'm sure the registry of the Grissom in ST3 was not a deliberate attempt to contradict FJ, but it does happen that a ship Kirk thinks either "is" or "could be confused with" a scout now carries a FJ scout registry... This might prompt us to extrapolate (if that were our mandate) that the scouts mentioned in ST:TMP walla were also of the Grissom design. Canon along with its more esoteric offshoots such as out-of-focus Okudagrams gives FJ scout registries exclusively to the Oberth class, amusingly enough. Timo Saloniemi
I'd be willing to bet that ILM just pulled the Grissom's registry number out of their asses, and didn't know diddly-squat about FJ's tech manual.
Okay, so I sort of went with Shipschematics.net designations for all of the above, which while not stated on-screen, seems to be pretty accurate speculation for the purposes that they seemed to have been designed for, except for maybe the Soyuz. It's hard to tell if those long things are actually weapons or sensor equipment, in which case the Soyuz could be a Reconnaissance/Surveillance or Science Frigate. I'd have to say that the Soyuz is one of those iffy designs. But the Miranda class is not only commonly called some sort of Frigate in non-canon, but when used in battle in the TNG-era battles, it seems to be used as some sort of support ship: some sort of Destroyer or Frigate. Frigate has been used most of the time. Another Fanon designation is Light Cruiser, which the Miranda might've been considered when state-of-the-art. The Oberth has almost always been used for science missions, and has no apparent weapons like most any other canon Starfleet starship classes at the time. It isn't a major stretch to assume that they are Science Vessels. The Constellation class, listed as a Galaxy Exploration (which I interpret as a Light or Medium Galaxy Exploration Cruiser) has never been shown in any major battles, even though her weapons layout is decent (at least 6 twin phaser banks and 4 torpedo launchers). Her type designation is mostly speculation, as we don't have much in canon to go by. It is commonly speculated that her four nacelles must mean that she and her descendent: the Cheyenne class, are specialized for something. True, there is no canon class designation for the Constellation class, so I just go with non-canon designations, until such time that a canon designation does come up. It isn't much stretch of the imagination to list the Excelsior class as either a Heavy Cruiser, due to eventually becoming a successful replacement for the Constitution class, or a Battleship, due to her heavy armament and larger size, as well as being listed as such in FASA, though I don't remember if FASA still had an official license at the time, so that designation is somewhat iffy. Until official designations are mentioned or shown on-screen, I'll just continue to refer to those starship classes as such, because I think that they are good enough, and it is the franchises own fault for not coming up with their own designations. Does there really need to be a sight or mention of the names to make those canon too? Can't we just stretch things a bit? I already have, and until Paramount says that they definitely aren't canon, or call them something else, then that is what I'll consider them to be. Franz Joseph's designs were published under licensed, and mentioned, shown, or otherwise hinted on screen or in dialogue, and that should be good enough to make them canon, and fill in Starfleet's ranks rather nicely. I believe that FASA's Larson and Loknar class were also published under license, but I get the feeling you don't want me to go there.
Franz Joseph's destroyer/scout concept appears to have been displaced by the Grissom and her Oberth-class ilk. Either that or the larger Miranda-class frigates. As far back as 1989, Mr. Roddenberry (through Mr. Arnold) made it official that FJ's 1975 Tech Manual was considered apocryphal.
Don't get me wrong: I personally believe that those diagrams seen in STIII represent the Saladin/Hermes and Ptolemy classes, because like the name-drops of FJ's ships in TMP, that was the intent at the time (although it could be argued that the background displays were just cobbled together from whatever officially licensed Trek books they could get their hands on, and weren't meant to be scrutinized the way we do with stuff today). Now with that said, canonically we don't know if those ships really existed. All we see are some diagrams. We never saw the actual ships. The diagrams are canonical, yes, but that's pretty much it. It's like that silly Enterprise-C debate where someone tried arguing that the Ent-C wall sculpture from the first few seasons of TNG really was the real Ent-C. Yes, the wall sculpture is canon, but the ship design it was meant to represent was never shown on screen as an actual ship (as we all know, the real Ent-C was of a different design than this sculpture). So there's no canonical evidence that a ship looking like it actually exists. Well, neither of those designs were shown on screen as a ship, diagram, model, etc., so I'm not sure why you singled them out, unless you've seen their designs in the show/movie and I haven't?