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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old August 30 2014, 05:37 AM   #46
Hober Mallow
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Re: Future of Star Trek...

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Cjohnson1701 wrote:
Reason two, The best trek to come out in the recent years has been fan made, and paid for by the fans.
I disagree. I think Prelude to Axanar was great as a 15-minute CG showcase with talking heads, but when they come to do their full 90-minute movie I'm not confident of the results. Their plans to cross over with Phase II fill me with dread. Continues and PII are sometimes fun, but it's painfully obvious that it's amateur fanboys playing dress-up. Some of it is enjoyable, some is downright embarrassing.
Yeah. I say more power to them -- everyone involved is obviously passionate about Trek -- but I can't take any of them seriously.
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Old August 30 2014, 06:02 AM   #47
mos6507
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Re: Future of Star Trek...

Tim Walker wrote: View Post
I was actually relieved when DS9 featured 1. flawed characters who 2. were often in conflict with each other.
...
Trek must have been a stultifying experience for writers and actors, until Roddenberry was off the scene.
IMHO, DS9 was an overreaction. I found the cast to be too smarmy and selfish and cynical. Too much brooding and scowling and not enough heart. And we've got so much of that kind of stuff these days that I kind of yearn for the more clear-cut role-model good-guys of yore.
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Old August 30 2014, 06:16 AM   #48
BigJake
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Re: Future of Star Trek...

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I say more power to them -- everyone involved is obviously passionate about Trek -- but I can't take any of them seriously.
Given what some of them have achieved in a non-profit context on shoestring budgets -- Continues most especially (honestly, hands up everyone who imagined prior to this decade that fan films would ever get that elaborate and proficient, and no cheating) -- it's getting a lot harder to care which fans purport to "take any of them seriously."
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Old August 31 2014, 01:44 AM   #49
Hober Mallow
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Re: Future of Star Trek...

BigJake wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I say more power to them -- everyone involved is obviously passionate about Trek -- but I can't take any of them seriously.
Given what some of them have achieved in a non-profit context on shoestring budgets -- Continues most especially (honestly, hands up everyone who imagined prior to this decade that fan films would ever get that elaborate and proficient, and no cheating) -- it's getting a lot harder to care which fans purport to "take any of them seriously."
Just to clarify my badly-worded sentence above, my first "them" refers to the passionate people involved in these productions and my second "them" refers to the productions themselves, not the people involved in making them.
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Old August 31 2014, 10:35 AM   #50
BigJake
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Re: Future of Star Trek...

No, I get that. I guess what I'm trying to convey is that given what fan-films are accomplishing these days -- and given that they are fan films and labours of love* and not $150 million K commercial productions -- the question of who "takes [the productions] seriously" is perhaps not a super-interesting thing that needs to be constantly brought up.

For that matter I could live without K-Diddy's habit of constantly using the phrase "fans playing dress-up" as if that thought had never occurred to any of us. Different strokes, maybe, I guess I just find that kind of commentary kind of obnoxious and supercilious and pretty much totally unnecessary. YMMV.

* Like, are people really confused about whether they're commercial ventures -- and therefore somehow fair game for this stuff -- because some of them raise money on Kickstarter? I rather hope not.
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Old September 3 2014, 12:54 AM   #51
Hypaspist
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Re: Future of Star Trek...

I don't think that the series is going to have any lasting appeal if they only do one-off movies. Even though I always liked the cerebral episodes the best, it was the ongoing threat of conflict that made me buy the toys and models as a kid. The IDW comics also show that there is a lot of ground that can still be covered with pre-existing canon, whether it is in the TOS era or the TNG/DS9 era.
Kids are always going to like the space battles, they're always going to like the Borg, and they're always going to like the original adversaries. A new show in either continuity can get a lot of use out of them. I think there has to be the looming threat of war if not an outright war.
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Old September 11 2014, 05:44 AM   #52
OpenMaw
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Re: Future of Star Trek...

mos6507 wrote: View Post
IMHO, DS9 was an overreaction. I found the cast to be too smarmy and selfish and cynical. Too much brooding and scowling and not enough heart. And we've got so much of that kind of stuff these days that I kind of yearn for the more clear-cut role-model good-guys of yore.
Here here!

Adding in character drama does not mean we have to go down the road of everyone being a broody depressed self-centered jerk all the time. In fact I think only having one or two of those types in a cast gives them a certain flair and color.

Hypaspist wrote: View Post
I think there has to be the looming threat of war if not an outright war.
I can't agree with that sentiment, here's why:

Star Trek's BIGGEST strength of all was in it's ability to tell a diverse set of stories. TOS did just about everything. It had stories of preventing war, it had character study, it had courtroom drama, comedy, horror, even a few downright goofy stories to shake things up. It did the entire gamut. One of the most trite and limiting things a TREK show could do is limit itself to being about war.

The BIGGEST thing a new Trek needs to do is have a sense of direction for the characters. I would say avoid outright arcing the shows plot, but make the character subject to constant changes, big and small. Actions have meaning. Characters have to grapple with things and make decisions. Most importantly... No reset button, and no/minimal Deus Ex Machina. Let the characters do stuff, and be proactive, damnit!

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying turn it into a TV version of TMP. We can have some space battles and do the odd phaser fight on planet-of-the-week... But let's not make that what it's all about all the time. The benefit of a weekly series is you can do a lot of stuff with your 13/24 episode run. There's room to do all of that stuff!
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Old September 11 2014, 09:08 PM   #53
dub
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Re: Future of Star Trek...

OpenMaw wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post
IMHO, DS9 was an overreaction. I found the cast to be too smarmy and selfish and cynical. Too much brooding and scowling and not enough heart. And we've got so much of that kind of stuff these days that I kind of yearn for the more clear-cut role-model good-guys of yore.
Here here!

Adding in character drama does not mean we have to go down the road of everyone being a broody depressed self-centered jerk all the time.
That ridiculously oversimplifies what DS9 was. There were flaws, yes. There was brooding. But there was also sheer joy. Love. Romance. Anger. Peace. Faith. Humor. True friendship. Family. Honor. Loyalty. Humanity. Deception. Humility. Boldness. Depth. Longing. Victory. Defeat. Shades of gray. And a wealth of characters to love or hate as you choose. And, I'm sorry, but DS9 definitely had heart.

OpenMaw wrote: View Post
Hypaspist wrote: View Post
I think there has to be the looming threat of war if not an outright war.
I can't agree with that sentiment, here's why:

Star Trek's BIGGEST strength of all was in it's ability to tell a diverse set of stories. TOS did just about everything. It had stories of preventing war, it had character study, it had courtroom drama, comedy, horror, even a few downright goofy stories to shake things up. It did the entire gamut.
And I enjoyed TOS for all of that. But guess which other Trek series had all of that? DS9. Plus war. And arcs. And episodic breaks. I think DS9 was Trek at its best, but of course that's totally subjective.

In the end, while I do enjoy serials and would love to see a fully serialized Trek, the style isn't as much of a priority as quality writing, casting and directing. The casting is a longterm thing. The writing and directing vary episode to episode. So it really comes down to how much you connect with the characters and stories overall.

I connected with all of the Treks to one degree or another. DS9 most of all. To each his own. But saying DS9 is just a bunch of depressing, brooding, smarmy, scowling, self-centered jerks with no heart, especially compared to other Trek series? Sorry, that's just not accurate.
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Old September 12 2014, 02:57 PM   #54
Hypaspist
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Re: Future of Star Trek...

If there is anything I'm in favor of, it's variety! I love science fiction that really makes you think...I'm just not so optimistic about its future in Trek movies.
It's kind of an obscure reference, but the video game Super Metroid was really the perfect mix of ambiance and creative design. Yeah it's a video game, but I can't think of too many examples where a world seemed to come so alive. Plus there was a good deal of 'man vs wild' going on there, taken to an extreme by the space suit. Anyway I'm just musing about some cool looking stuff.

I like DS9 and Voyager for different reasons, but TOS and TNG were the best. They had the underlying story of a potential/low level war, but it didn't dominate everything. I do think that they could use that to focus a movie and make it entertaining for everyone. A movie has to be focused or you end up with Dune. I love Dune, but how could that ever have succeeded as a film (despite being perfectly cast)? I can only imagine what would happen if someone tried to make a Ringworld movie.
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