Bob Orci: Spoke with CBS about returning Trek To TV

To be honest, reading Ahmed's comments from 311 to being told to fuck off just by themselves (there might be other contextual points but you bring that poster up specifically) he just doesn't like Into Darkness, and considers it illogical. His opinion is a bit bluntly stated but I've seen far, far worse said on other forums about Trek and other things without the creators being so unprofessional as to be rude and say "fuck off". It's as simple as not going on the damn website if you don't like the opinions people express.

 

It's also come at the tail-end of 4 years of dealing with "fan" bullshit. To put it bluntly: Creators are through taking shit.

George Lucas hit on the head when he killed his last Star Wars project before selling out to Disney.

There's being critical of the work, and there's making it personal. To many fans make it personal.

Orci hasn't said or did anything any worse than what's be said or done over the years. The 'net just gives every a-hole who doesn't like the new movies and thinks Gene Rodennberry walked on water a megaphone as a presumed pass to be pricks to the production team.

 

Or fans could grow up and quit acting like a Star Trek movie they dislike is a life or death matter.

There's much of Berman Trek I dislike, but I don't feel the need to constantly scream about it. I don't need to go into those forums and run down something that other folks obviously love. I definitely don't need to abuse the creators.

YMMV.

 

Hell, you can be critical of the product without personally trashing the people that made it.

 

There's always going to be people like that. It's inevitable. Yes, they shouldn't be like that, but losing your cool (and your appearance of professionalism in the process) and swearing at them and descending to their level isn't going to make anyone stop being a dick. It's going to add fuel to the fire because they'll suddenly have more ammunition: "oh look, Orci swore at this fan for disliking his Trek, he's a dick!" It's a vicious business, the Internet, but that's how it is.

Hence my point, reiterated again: producers, writers and actors - everyone involved in such an ongoing production - should avoid direct Internet communication with fandom. It doesn't do anything for them at all, and it exposes them to things that test the limits of their patience and professionalism.

 

Blowing up on a bunch of online assholes =/= to his professionalism. His professionalism is determined by the people he works with, the quality of his work and whether or not his employers are happy with it. Professionalism is won or lost by whether or not he butthurt some people online.

When he's on an online forum or out and about, unless he's doing a Q & A or officially representing the production, then he's on his own time and free to say whatever he wants and respond to comments direct towards or about him

 

Exactly. People are merciless on messageboards. Ok, so maybe Orci should have kept his cool but I don't know the exact extents of the insults being made though being a member on messageboards for over a decade, I can only imagine. Most of the time I imagine the worst of these offenders as 12 year olds wearing a backwards baseball cap sitting behind a computer spewing insults without any regards for how people feel. It's immature to just lash out and attack people personally over a creative work (unless said work is in itself offensive - i.e. racist) even with or without constructive criticism.

Again, I don't even get the hate at all. Maybe it's because Orci and Abrams and company have their hands in so many projects nowadays and yes, some are going to be hit and miss. Maybe it's just "cool" to hate on them because they're the popular thing in Hollywood right now. The thing is, people are expecting the Star Trek they grew up with when prior to the 2009 movie, Abrams already clearly stated "this isn't your father's Star Trek." Voting "Into Darkness" as the worst movie in the franchise is so mind-numbingly ridiculous but hopefully it's a minority of people and Trek fans (like myself) who otherwise enjoyed both Abrams Trek movies.

Alright, sorry for the rant.

 

I'll take Orci's "fuck off" over Berman's "we're all very pleased" everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Orci and company at least seem to be passionate about their work.

 

Okay,

Sorry, but Ahmed's post in no way warrants such a response.

 

I don't think it was just Ahmed's post. That was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
I look back at the original article. Dickerson claiming the overwhelming majority of fans at the Vegas convention rated STID as the worst Star Trek movie of all time. Then saying how much fans hated the movie at the Seattle Convention as well.

Dickerson passes off the hatred of the fans for STID as fact which we learn from other articles that it was not.

Also the main intent of the article is to blame the writers (Orci) and to point out every show Dickerson could think of where the writing was better. So you can see why Orci is already on the defensive (though if I were him I would just ignore the extremists - easily said I suppose)

Then everyone saying what they would do better in the comments is you-know what forums are all about.

But the Ahmed guy - well shall we include all the 'classy' posts by him. He's hardly an innocent victim here.

 

Here's the way I consider all those "Well, I could do better than <insert writer>!": Do it, fucking do it if you're so goddamn better. Do it under the same conditions, studio demands and limitations, do it under the demands and requirements of the actors, the directors, the SFX departments, the limitations of budgets, deal with the expectations of trying to create a film worth spending multi-millions of dollars on with the expectation making all that and considerably more back. DO it under the stress and the deadlines these people deal with.

And if you don't think all that applies to a professional screenwriter working on a multi-billion dollar franchise: Take your head out, you're cutting off the oxygen to your brain.

There are plenty of "I do can better"s in the world, a damn sight few of them that actually can. If they can, they're probably already in the business.

 

Anybody involved in Trek PTB know they'll never please all fans. I doubt they give a fig what we think.

If there's Trek on TV, I'm there. I don't care if it's good or not. It'll probably be better than ENT or VOY, more or less

 

I hope they don't, I sincerely do. For every "good" idea that one fan might have, there's a 100,000+ more that boil down to being no more than a circle-jerk of canon and self-reference that only the most hardcore of fans would even know about or worse so obscure that only the most hardcore of hardcore fans even care give two shits about.

All I ask of Star Trek is that it entertains me. That's it.

 

I have no particular objection to him saying fuck off in and of itself; he is as you say only human. But my point rather is that all individuals associated with an ongoing franchise of any sort of this magnitude should stay off the Internet and avoid these discussion forums type encounters.

As I've explained, apart from the "fuck off" being a little unprofessional (though understandable) since he's not really just a guy, he's a representative of a production team and doing that really could have (though didn't, overly) generate some bad PR, there's also the point that going on there serves him no purpose. There is no evidence that fan feedback on these forums is used in any way, and if Orci dislikes spending four years dealing its people being rude and unpleasant, it was his choice to go on the forums and it was his choice to debate. If he doesn't get that there's always going to be dicks, sad as that is, he shouldn't go on. He wouldn't lose a damn thing, and he'd deny the fan idiots ammunition.

Now, if the fan feedback on these forums was somehow essential, or there were some evidence that he takes something away from these encounters, I would say he should continue to go on at risk of making another possible PR blunder simply because anything that helps him improve his craft can only be a good thing. But of course, there is no such evidence. Unless he has specifically stated at one point, "going n fan forums helps me X". There might be some general bullshit like "keeping in touch with the fans" but honestly, that's just crap and nothing a fan says would ever measurably effect the way he writes.

I feel like I'm repeating my basic point and that this entire debate has become rather overly circular for my tastes, so that'll be the last I say on the matter.

One final note, back on the original topic before we started discussing Orci's forum going: I may not rate the new films as being good Trek, but they are in my opinion good cinema, well written enough for the vein they're in (but not perfect). If Orci can bring the same writing talent to a televised version, I say his hands should happen. I doubt it'd be the Trek I want personally, but it would be something with the Trek name and it might even be good telly, which in the long run helps the franchise survive better. Then, maybe, someone else can get to come along in a few years and either reboot Trek properly with no half arsed connection to the old series, or go back to Prime and see the 25th century (more likely the former).

 

I've got to be honest, I've never understood this distinction.

 

It's really quite simple for me. They don't fit my personal gut feeling of what Star Trek is: they have too many inconsistencies with the tone, look and feeling of Star Trek, in any of it's many incarnations, and I have seen at least some of all of them. I could list why but that would get me into a discussion I'm already bored having with other people, and most people would probably only disagree with most of what I say or dismiss it as irrelevant or nitpicking, which to a certain degree most of it is. In any case, as Trek, they don't work for me.

That being said (old Spock time), they're well acted, usually decently written (notable but irrelevant to this discussion exceptions aside), they have amazing special effects - far in advance of anything Trek has ever had - and whatever their flaws, are never boring, plus they have enough nods to keep what I sppose you'd call the "rampant nitpicky fanboy" part of me pacified enough to enjoy the movie for what it is. So as cinema, they work well. For some people, that's enough. For me, not so much, but it at least makes them watchable.

 

The only way this could go south quickly is if they decide to focus on the xenophobia angle already done in Into Darkness. That was fine, but enough already. (We even covered that ground with Peter Weller on ENT, ffs.)

A Section 31 show ain't gonna be that fun... desperate for more exploration now. Aliens, new worlds, etc. Let's have some fun with that. My dream scenario: JJTrek's film 3 sets up some sort of TV miniseries, maybe Sulu takes Excelsior while Kirk rocks Enterprise and they tag team the galaxy together.

 

And you can praise the product without personally trashing the people who disagree with you.

 

The only people who I see get trashed aren't those who dislike the movies, it's those who dislike the movie and scream to the top of their proverbial lungs that "it isn't Star Trek!" and "oh my God, Star Trek would never do that!" Even though those statements have been proven false over and over and over and over.