I was thinking about doing a "What do you prefer? Kruge or Chang" poll-thread and the following post in the Kruge thread convinced me I should do it: Now, I've always liked both characters. And AT THE TIME, I really loved Chang because he was a different type of Klingon than I was used to seeing on TOS or TNG. I loved Kruge myself, and by the time we reached TFF and met Klaa, I thought, "Ok, Kruge is still awesome of course, but Klaa is just a Kruge clone. And a weak one at that." TNG had the warrior thing going too. Like everyone was part of a biker gang, which is all well and good, don't get me wrong, I love Klingons. But when TUC came around, I was thrilled to see this different guy with an eye patch, eloquence, and elegance to go with his forehead and Klingon ship. Yeah, some of the Shakespeare was a bit much, especially, "I'm as constant as the Northern Star." but even that paved the way for one of the last, great McCoy quips. I'm going to hold on voting for now because I can't think of one I'd like to vote. You can vote for both if it's a tie for you. Kruge came first and, to me, because the prototypical Klingon badass. Chang, I loved for Christopher Plummer's bombastic line delivery, scenery chewing and uniqueness. I'm leaning Kruge, but for a long time after TUC, I loved Chang more. So it's hard for me to pick.
I prefer Kruge because I remember being shocked when David was killed. I think up until then I'd barely seen a major (or related) character killed off.
A lot of people blow this off but I believe and will always maintain that Lloyd's roles as Reverand Jim and Doc Brown made it harder for some people to take him seriously as such a bad guy. Plummer didn't have that handicap. Sure he is a successful actor and is known by a lot of people. But the role he is most known for, Captain von Trapp in the Sound of Music, was 25 years before TUC. Taxi and Back to the Future were right around the same time as TSFS so Lioyd was active in his best know roles, which were comedic, at about the same time he's trying to play an evil Klingon. Imagine if somehow TUC came out a year or two after the Sound of Music.....I think a lot of people would have been "Hey....That's the head of the singing Von Trapp's and a guy who took on and outsmarted those evil Nazis. He can't possibly be this evil Klingon. Would have been a little harder to pull off Chang in that circumstance than with 25 years in between such different roles.
They're about even (Kruge better written and played but Chang more interesting conceptually) but I'll give the edge to Kruge, definitely improving his film more than Chang did his.
"DROP ALL WEAPONS!" Lloyd's delivery of that line always cracked me up. Moreso after I saw Kevin Pollack's Trek parody in his TV special, with Rev. Jim as Spock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nziS8brN00
One thing you have to keep mind when looking at Kruge and Chang is how they were created as opponents for Kirk and by extension William Shatner. So IMHO Shatner in TOS was what he was. He had good episodes, he had corny episodes. In TMP I actually thought he dialed it down too much and was kind of boring for his character. I think Shatner did his best work in TWOK and TSFS. After that the ham factor started to ramp up with TVH, hit it's climax in TFF, came down some for TUC and came pretty close to matching TFF in Generations. But in II and III I think he was at his best. He wasn't over the top very much, was funny without being corny, played serious moments without his over dramatic speaking voice and had some very sublime and subtle moments where he was great like Spock's death and funeral. And I don't care what anyone says the KHHHHAAAANNNNN scream was perfect when you factor in every thing that Khan has done to him going back to "Space Seed" So in III Kirk wasn't the Kirk of TOS but he was still fairly strong energetic, clever, willing to take risks and very much in command of the situation as is evidenced by his plan to steal the Enterprise to save Spock. And Shatner was passionate in his acting, but not really hammy. So Kruge had to be a villian that reflected those things in order to be a worth opponent and I believe Kruge was very much a reflection of Kirk, albeit with more sisister traits, with his strength, cunning, boldness, commanding presence and so on. Which lent itself to the two having it out mano a mano on the planet. By TUC though Kirk was different. He was tired, ready to call it a career, was obviously not in the best physical shape and not as strong a presence as he was in III. He didn't want to be a part of the mission with the Klingons in part because of his hatred of them but also in part because he just was ready to retire. Also Shatner was hammier in TUC then in TSFS, some of which was his acting, but some was the story itself. So it would have been ridiculous to have a character like Kruge opposing him. Whereas Chang is much more like TUC Kirk...he's older, physically not that imposing, much calmer and less aggressive than Kruge and seems fed up with this friendly Klingon/Federation relationship as well, but has to play the part. He also acts in a style that is more hammier than Kruge to mirror the acting style Shatner had fallen into at that point in his career. Although I'm sure if Shatner had had his way the main Klingon bad would have been played by someone like Wilt Chamberlain (who was still alive at the time) and it would have climaxed in Kirk and Wilt having a fistfight in the assembly hall at the end of TUC and of course a fat middle aged Kirk would have overpowered his huge opponent once again showing William Shatner to be the greatest man in the history of the galaxy. So IMHO the two were tailored to Kirk/Shatner to reflect what kind of character/actor he was. Have no idea what Klaa was supposed to mirror in Kirk. But of course TFF isn't known for being a wealth of creative film elements.
Chang, by a long shot. A much more interesting and compelling villain: slier, wittier,and memorably brought to life by Plummer. No offense to Lloyd, but Kruge was just another snarling Klingon. Chang had charisma.
Greg, I'd love to hear a bit more about why you (seem to) dislike Kruge. I thought the way Kruge spoke Klingon and behaved kinda paved the way for future Klingons. I thought he took what John Colicos and Michael Ansara did and and successfully upgraded them for the movies and TNG with a great Klingon speaking voice to boot.
Honestly, I don't have any real problems with Kruge. I just really love Plummer as Chang, enough so that I was genuinely surprised to see that some people prefer Kruge. Maybe I just prefer urbane, witty villains. Chang is kinda the STAR TREK version of, say, James Mason in NORTH BY NORTHWEST or Orson Welles in THE THIRD MAN. It's simply a matter of taste, that's all.
Besides Ru'affo, Chang is the movie villian I find the least interesting. There's nothing alien (or even Klingon) about him. He's a grumpy old man. With an eyepatch. And a regal British accent. Yawn-inducing. I always resented the over-the-top Classic literature quoting in this film, and most of it comes from this character. It doesn't fit. It's hammy and out of place and completely throws me out of the film. Nothing against Christopher Plummer, who is a gentleman and an accomplished actor...but it just wasn't a compelling role. Star Trek VI in general has not aged well, in my opinion. I tried watching it around Christmas and just couldn't get through it. And I love all things TOS...so it saddens me to say that. Kruge, on the other hand, was dynamic, brutal, and menacing. I've always put that character second only to Montalban's Khan as a film series villian.
I also think Chang gets votes based on people preferring TUC over TSFS in some cases, rather than looking objectively at the particular character.
I agree about TUC not aging particularly well. My biggest issue watching it now is many of the scenes just seem so scripted so everyone can have a line. It was like they were trying to make up for 25 years of Kirk, Spock and McCoy dominating the dialogue in one film. At the time I don't think I noticed because I was swept up in the nostalga and thought it was nice to hear more from the other characters. But I just watch it now and it seems like for many scenes the writers were like...So Kirk says something, then Spock, the Uhura, then Scotty, then Chekov, then Kirk again, then Scotty again and so on. Also that scene when everyone is applauding them for saving the peace process and they're all standing in staggered formation on a stage.....it just is so hokey. Someone said it looked like they were posing for a portrait that noone took. Chang's Shakespeare was annoying from the beginning but once I got a chance to compare it side by side to Khan's Moby Dick quotes....it REALLY looked weak. I hate saying all this too because I really did like a lot when it came out, but, like some kinds of music, just didn't hold up as well as others.
Totally get it. I tend to like well-spoken, educated villains myself at times. Back in the 90s, I would've firmly voted Chang. These days, I appreciate what Lloyd (and his cohorts) did with the Klingons.
You GOTTA hand it to Plummer; he may have outhammed the legendary Shatner. "DOYOUDENYBEINGDEMOTEDFORTHESE CHARGESDONTWAITFORTHETRANSLAIONANSWERMENOW!"
As much as everyone goes on (either positively or negatively) about Meyer's use of Shakespeare quotes in the script, as well as Spock claiming Holmesian ancestry, my favorite referential line is Chang's "Don't wait for the translation! Answer me now!" Also, this jumped out at me in enterprisecvn's post from the other thread which was quoted at the top of this one: To be fair, he could see the torpedo looping around, likely put one and one together, and recognized that the torpedo would home in on his ship regardless. I think your criticism is more valid when applied to the Duras sisters in Generations (who literally do just sit there after Data triggers their cloak). There isn't even a "Where's the override?" from them when the shields drop.
Klingons seem to be adept at, to borrow a phrase, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. EDIT: In other words, once they think they've won they tend to sit back and bask in the glory of victory. They let their guard down, and BOOM.
Kruge. A great villain in my favorite Star Trek movie of all time. I love the spin he puts on his lines. TSFS came out in 1984. Back to the Future hit theaters the following year, so Doc Brown was not figuring in anyone's mind at that point. Maybe afterward on home video, but not at the time. I can agree about Reverend Jim, even though I wasn't a fan of Taxi and never watched it until well after I saw Star Trek III.