A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Well, Grenn sort of makes sense since he served as a replacement for Donal Noye. And since Noye isn't in the show, I guess they still wanted SOMEONE we knew to die at the gate. But yeah, sucks they killed Pyp as well. Though as you said, they didn't really do much going forward (hell, I had to look at the AFFC appendix to double check that they DID survive the battle )

 

Apparently a couple audition videos for season five have leaked, revealing that Jaime and Bronn will go to Dorne and cross paths with the Sand Snakes. Which makes a certain kind of sense-- it stops the Dorne storyline from being entirely about new characters, and it keeps Jaime busy without getting into the "cleaning up the riverlands" plot from the books, which depends on characters and situations the show hasn't done much with. (Though I wouldn't rule out the show doing an abbreviated version of that eventually.)

 

It does make sense and it's a good way to keep Bronn involved (who pretty much disappears from the narrative after Tyrion flees), but I wonder who they'll work in the Brienne situation if he's all the way in Dorne. I guess that all depends whether we'll actually get Lady Stoneheart at the end of the finale like I suspect and hope.

 

The geographical scale of the show is vague enough that they can do pretty much anything they want about that, depending on whether Brienne meets Stoneheart at the end of this season, the end of next season, or somewhere in between. We know they're not afraid of creating filler when the timelines of different characters don't fit the overall plan.

 

There's a longer trailer available for the finale, and it has Shae in it... so it looks like we're going to get her death -- and I'd assume that means we're going to end on Tywin's then. They can't split those two apart between seasons. I'd love to see Lady S but I don't think we're going to until next time.

I'm so interested in what the non-readers have to say about Shae's end and how it affects Tyrion's popularity -- though Tywin's kind of balances it out somewhat...

 

There is a lot they can do with Lady S: they can give us a brief shot to get everyone talking, she can dispense justice on the Freys, or they can jump ahead to Brienne.

As for Shae: I said up thread I thought she might be too sympathetic a character, and the viewers might get upset like they did with the Red Wedding. But that was before we saw the testimony that destroyed Tyrion emotionally. I don't think the audience will expect anything other than her death now.

 

I'm going to miss Charles Dance, though. Now that his time has come, I'm especially thankful they gave us those scenes with Arya at Harrenhal so we got even more of him.

He'd make a good Master vs. Capaldi's Doctor, methinks...

 

So re: the Tyrion/Shae thing, they kinda just went ahead and made it justifiable self defense in the end.

 

Not really. At first, sure, but he disarmed her and then sat and choked her to death.

 

Well, what's he supposed to do, give her an opportunity to scream for help? He's kinda shit deep in it at that point. Seems like a significant departure from the book, but then again it's been a while.

 

Alas, no Lady Stoneheart. Maybe they're saving that for the next season finale.

I'm a little disappointed by the change in conversations between Tyrion and Tywin and later Jaime. The two Lannister brothers part still loving each other.

Interesting decision to kill of Jojen now instead of where his now in the books, still slowing dying. I guess that kind of puts a kaput to the theories that he'll sacrifice himself in different way in the books to help Bran.

However, despite my initial dislike for it, I did like the encounter between Brienne and the Hound. If nothing else, that will change the dynamic of Brienne's eventual meeting with Lady Stoneheart.

 

Not a mention of Tysha, not even a word.

 

An interview with Martin about the finale: http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/16/game-of-thrones-finale-martin/. Interesting quotes about the different meanings to Tyrion and to Westerosi society of the murders of Tywin and Shae. He also declines to talk about the significance of Shae being in Tywin's bed, because "there’s still aspects of it I haven’t revealed that will be revealed in later books. But the role of Varys in all of this is also something to be considered."

He also talks a fair bit about Tysha, which suggests he may not have known she wouldn't be mentioned in the episode. Or he could just be answering strictly in terms of the books.

 

Not having seen tbe episode yet, that seems like a very odd omission. If I recall, she was the whole reason that confrontation took place as opposed to Tyrion simply getting the hell out of dodge.

 

So, someone sneaks into your bedroom. You grab your gun/Knife/whatever to protect yourself and suddenly you're the aggressor?
If anyone was defending, it was Shae.

 

It's hardly her bedroom. But that's not really the point I'm trying to get at. She just happened to be there, Tyrion was standing there dumbfounded trying to process WTF he was seeing. She was the one that went for a weapon and escalated it to a battle to the death.

The context of the earlier conversation is that the way he murdered her in the book made him irredeemable how TV viewers would/should react to that. I didn't necessarily subscribe to that view... but given the way it played out on the show, I don't see any sort of Tyrion backlash brewing in that way for the vast majority of people.

 

So, at the end of this season, this episode in particular, we've a few differences from the books:

- Jojen is outright dead, as oppose to slowly dying;

- the Lannister brothers parted on good terms;

- the Hound appears to be more likely to die outright than in the books (it is presumably unlikely that Brienne will encounter him on the island of 'monks' in the same way as the books);

-Brienne won't be disfigured by Biter but has been injured by the Hound. Her mission to find the Stark sisters has taken a different path already;

- No Lady Stoneheart;

- Balon Greyjoy is still alive (but hardly mentioned, much less seen onscreen).

 

Considering Alex Graves' comments on Lady Stoneheart, it's just as well he didn't direct an episode introducing her. Way to miss the point, dude. If GOT reduces the character to a shock-effect murderous zombie, that will be on the show, not the source material.

 

To be fair, I think he's just talking about the broad strokes of the character. After all, he said they didn't talk about the character at all for this season and who knows whether or not he's read the books or not. In retrospect, I do agree with the notion that there wasn't room for the character in a season (and finale) that was packed with a lot of storylines and characters. Further, I agree with the io9 writer that it might be too early to introduce her considering there isn't much material to work with so far from the books in comparison to the pacing of other characters' storylines (granted we've pretty much caught up with Bran and Sansa at this point). It might not be possible to secure Michelle Fairley for on and off and might be suited for the show to include her in a more condensed manner later on down the road.

Incidentally, your link includes www.trekbbs.com in it.

 

A friend of mine visited the set today and as a result of what he saw, he thinks that this is correct.