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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old February 19 2015, 12:58 AM   #181
Zek
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

jimbotron wrote: View Post
I liked Birthright Part I because of DS9, Data's dream, and Bashir's cameo. I tend to forget the Worf plot. Making the Worf plot the entire focus of Part II was a mistake. Plus all the things I liked in Part I were gone in Part II. They could have set 10-15 minutes aside to focus on another character. Perhaps delve into Crusher's dead husband again or Troi's dad.
I had no idea Birthright pts. 1 and 2 were not well received by fellow fans. Personally I loved it particularly because Bashir was in it and the second part focused on one of my favorite characters....
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Old February 19 2015, 07:28 AM   #182
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I love Masks. The ship transforming, the temple set, the symbols showing up. Whole scenes where they're just trying to figure stuff out. Maybe it's just nostalgia because this is one episode that stuck in my mind since seeing it as a kid.
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Old February 19 2015, 11:45 AM   #183
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

The fact that ”The Royale” was ever considered a bad episode when there are infinitely worse shows in each and every season is a bit of a laugh. It has more of a TOS-like spirit of exploring the truly unknown and the deeply mysterious than many other episodes of TNG, even great ones. It feels like classic Trek did at its best: eerie, strange and yet a little bit goofy.
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Old February 19 2015, 05:51 PM   #184
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
The fact that ”The Royale” was ever considered a bad episode when there are infinitely worse shows in each and every season is a bit of a laugh. It has more of a TOS-like spirit of exploring the truly unknown and the deeply mysterious than many other episodes of TNG, even great ones. It feels like classic Trek did at its best: eerie, strange and yet a little bit goofy.
The problem is, to me, that they make fun of bad writing...using bad, Season 2 writing. That ends up being rather awkward, plus the historical setting, not really what I want to see in a SciFi show.

Basically every work of fiction that, at multiple occasions stops its "plot" to just have a pointless conversation about how bad the writing of this other fictional work is, leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
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Old February 19 2015, 10:48 PM   #185
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

It's been said many times already but "Masks" and "Genesis" are two episodes I love that I see taking a lot of flak.


"The Royale"? No. I mean I don't hate it, but I could never see that episode again and I wouldn't care. After rewatching seasons 1 & 2 when the blu-rays came out, I found that there are more decent episodes in them than I remembered but as a whole I'm still just not too fond of them. I think they're the two weakest seasons.

My favorites are pretty much all from the later years. "Cause and Effect", "Timescape", "Parallels", "Genesis", "Yesterday's Enterprise", "Identity Crisis", "The Next Phase", "Time's Arrow", "Starship Mine", "All Good Things..." just to name a few.
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Old February 19 2015, 10:49 PM   #186
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I actually liked Masks. I thought it was kind of creepy, but in a good way. You know nobody else could have pulled it off like Spiner did.
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Old February 19 2015, 10:59 PM   #187
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Masks was literally the only episode of TNG during its initial run that I turned off before the end.

No slight to Spiner or Stewart but the whole thing was so corny and funny, but not good funny, that I just couldn't finish it.

I Give the Royale a pass because the show was still finding its way

By masks though it should have been clear to the producers it was too ridiculous. Maybe the well was starting to run dry by then. But they didn't need to dig that deep.

Plus by then they'd done so many "Data goes nuts because of something that affects him as an android " that it was old.
Honestly in real life do you think star fleet would really allow him to stay in uniform given his history of acting abnormally.
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Old February 20 2015, 12:02 AM   #188
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

enterprisecvn65 wrote: View Post
Plus by then they'd done so many "Data goes nuts because of something that affects him as an android " that it was old.
Honestly in real life do you think star fleet would really allow him to stay in uniform given his history of acting abnormally.
By that logic, NO ONE would be allowed to serve in Starfleet anymore, given how often all the characters have been influenced/possessed in some way throughout the history of the franchise.
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Old February 20 2015, 03:43 AM   #189
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Tom Riley wrote: View Post
enterprisecvn65 wrote: View Post
Plus by then they'd done so many "Data goes nuts because of something that affects him as an android " that it was old.
Honestly in real life do you think star fleet would really allow him to stay in uniform given his history of acting abnormally.
By that logic, NO ONE would be allowed to serve in Starfleet anymore, given how often all the characters have been influenced/possessed in some way throughout the history of the franchise.
I still think Data is the clear champion in that category, though. Then add he's the most capable and dangerous character of all shows and crews.
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Old February 20 2015, 06:35 PM   #190
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

All the love for Masks warms my heart.

I'll go with The Royale as well.
And Birthright Part I, which surprises me with its inclusion.

Is Conspiracy maligned?

I think Contagion is massively underrated due to where it falls. More ignored than maligned, though.
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Old February 20 2015, 08:03 PM   #191
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

"Conspiracy" is a decent-enough and creepy episode with a paranoid atmosphere that I enjoy (plus it was one of the more ambitious episodes of Season 1), but I think in retrospect the original concept of having the threat from outside known space turn out (with some changes) to be the Borg might have worked better than a random, sentient and parasitical life form that infiltrated Starfleet. Still, for a 1988 episode from the very first and clunkiest year of the series I really like it.
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Old February 20 2015, 09:49 PM   #192
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Darren Mooney wrote: View Post
All the love for Masks warms my heart.

I'll go with The Royale as well.
And Birthright Part I, which surprises me with its inclusion.

Is Conspiracy maligned?

I think Contagion is massively underrated due to where it falls. More ignored than maligned, though.

I don't think that "Conspiracy" is maligned. From what I've observed it's usually among the highest-rated of episodes in season 1. It may be criticized for its violence, but that's different from a criticism of it's quality.
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Old February 20 2015, 10:10 PM   #193
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

I think the biggest problem with Birthright part I is Birthright part II and malignment follows.


I really dislike Birthright II. Oversimplification, but, Worf basically finds a peaceful place and introduces prejudices. Because we all need more prejudices, right?

I found Data's story far more interesting, but he didn't carry over to part 2 at all.
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Old February 21 2015, 12:36 PM   #194
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

Marsden wrote: View Post
I really dislike Birthright II. Oversimplification, but, Worf basically finds a peaceful place and introduces prejudices. Because we all need more prejudices, right?
I figured the show was an exploration of whether it is right to withhold information and lie to ensure compliant behaviour, or to tel the truth about things and let people make their own choices. Basically what "The Village" would have been about if it wasn't one long set-up for a twist.

I found Data's story far more interesting, but he didn't carry over to part 2 at all.
Agreed - though the Data story was definitely done in part one, would have been nice to see another DS9 character crossover as the B-story in Pt 2. Was far too early in the run for it to work, but would be fun to see Garak amongst the Ent-D crew.
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Old February 27 2015, 11:07 PM   #195
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Re: Favourite Much-Maligned TNG Episodes

BillJ wrote: View Post
I'm a much bigger fan of seasons one and two than what came later. So I'll pick an episode from one of the latter seasons: "Power Play". I'm not exactly sure how much love it gets, but I rarely see it discussed on these boards. Spiner is great as usual, Sirtis and Meaney get to stretch their acting legs and the story is fun, in the spirit of TOS.
I'm right there with you. Its too easy to under appreciate those seasons because it was different. The actors were finding their characters and the episodes express this but at least it's not as predictable like the overrated "The Best of Both Worlds" which a lot of fan-wankers ride so heavy on.

I'd rather those simple episodes from the first two seasons than the drab which follows.
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