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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 22 2014, 02:54 AM   #76
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Why no Sela in 'Nemesis'?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Same applies for Vulcans featured in TNG and I don't recall Tuvok from VOY showing emotions.
Tuvok did so (or seemed to) quite a few times in Voyager, particularly during Kes' metamorphosis. It's just that Tim Russ' acting is so bland it's kind of hard to tell.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I don't really see emotions here but considerations of social status and social interaction.
None of which stem from any motivation other than an inherently EMOTIONAL desire.

Her exact words: "I wanted Stonn." "I did not want to be the consort of a legend." These are emotional considerations: having Stonn would please her, having a famous husband who is never home would displease her. It's not like she evaluated Stonn as a genetically compatible mate whose skill set and experience neatly complimented her own talents in a mutually beneficial arrangement. She wanted Stonn because she was attracted to him, and he wanted her for the same reason. There's nothing logical about sex, even on Vulcan.

An important thing to note, which was observed above, is that not all Vulcans actually achieve Kohlinar, nor do they even bother too. Kohlinar requires a huge amount of study and discipline and implies not merely the CONTROL of emotions, but to renounce them altogether and eliminate them from one's psyche. Every-day Vulcans don't go that far: They don't renounce their emotions, they simply hide them, and carefully control the time and place and even the way those emotions find expression.

Sarek is the ultimate example. We saw his REAL emotions when he mind-melded with Picard in TNG, and since then there's been no doubt that the reason he married Amanda is because he was crazy about her. Like all Vulcans, however, he came up with a logical reason to justify the yearning of his heart and found ways to express his emotions in a manner that would be consistent with Vulcan's societal norms (and through Picard, expresses his deep regret that he couldn't bring himself to deviate from those norms to show her how he REALLY felt).

It's only the Kohilnar masters who are not even MOTIVATED by emotion: people who have successfully and completely tamed their Id. Their motivations are very different from those of normal Vulcans: mechanical, dispassionate, calculating, and possibly even cynical. I doubt even T'pau had THAT kind of discipline.
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Old June 22 2014, 04:46 AM   #77
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Re: Why no Sela in 'Nemesis'?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post

Sarek is the ultimate example. We saw his REAL emotions when he mind-melded with Picard in TNG, and since then there's been no doubt that the reason he married Amanda is because he was crazy about her. Like all Vulcans, however, he came up with a logical reason to justify the yearning of his heart and found ways to express his emotions in a manner that would be consistent with Vulcan's societal norms (and through Picard, expresses his deep regret that he couldn't bring himself to deviate from those norms to show her how he REALLY felt).
I have to say that the scene in the transporter room after the destruction of Vulcan, in Star Trek (2009), between Zach Quinto (Spock) and Ben Cross (Sarek) was really well done. Where Sarek admits he married Amanda because he loved her.
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Old June 22 2014, 11:45 PM   #78
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Re: Why no Sela in 'Nemesis'?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
That would have been a nice touch of continuity. But his last appearance in "All Good Things" had a somewhat comedic touch and he seemed most cooperative, so I think they had "killed" future prospects of Tomalak becoming an antagonist again.
I have always felt Katsulas Played Tomalak in AGT as if he were G"Kar
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Old June 24 2014, 05:17 PM   #79
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Re: Why no Sela in 'Nemesis'?

There is of course no such thing as a stereotypical Vulcan.

Sakona thought it was logical for the Maquis to fight Cardassians in the Demilitiarised Zone, Valeris thought it was logical to start a war with the Klingons, viewpoints which would seem to be at odds with most other Vulcans.

The problem with Sela is I could see her in the movie, but she would simply have been a peripheral character.
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Old July 1 2014, 04:46 PM   #80
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Re: Why no Sela in 'Nemesis'?

I was just thinking, looking at the Sela's failures in Redeption and Unification, she was probably quietly retired by the time of Nemesis. Probably with a disruptor.
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Old July 1 2014, 07:39 PM   #81
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Re: Why no Sela in 'Nemesis'?

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I was just thinking, looking at the Sela's failures in Redeption and Unification, she was probably quietly retired by the time of Nemesis. Probably with a disruptor.
I don't think that's the Romulans' style when it comes to their own people. If she got in that kind of trouble, they probably sent her to a "reeducation camp" on the far side of Remus.
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Old July 2 2014, 09:23 PM   #82
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Re: Why no Sela in 'Nemesis'?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Marsden wrote: View Post
I was just thinking, looking at the Sela's failures in Redeption and Unification, she was probably quietly retired by the time of Nemesis. Probably with a disruptor.
I don't think that's the Romulans' style when it comes to their own people. If she got in that kind of trouble, they probably sent her to a "reeducation camp" on the far side of Remus.
Going by the Roman influences on Romulan society it's more like a disruptor left on a table and a "you know what to do" look before leaving her alone in the room.
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Old July 3 2014, 06:12 PM   #83
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Re: Why no Sela in 'Nemesis'?

solariabsg25 wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Marsden wrote: View Post
I was just thinking, looking at the Sela's failures in Redeption and Unification, she was probably quietly retired by the time of Nemesis. Probably with a disruptor.
I don't think that's the Romulans' style when it comes to their own people. If she got in that kind of trouble, they probably sent her to a "reeducation camp" on the far side of Remus.
Going by the Roman influences on Romulan society it's more like a disruptor left on a table and a "you know what to do" look before leaving her alone in the room.
The Romulans stopped being space romans after Balance of Terror. They're more like North Koreans now.
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Old July 3 2014, 07:01 PM   #84
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Re: Why no Sela in 'Nemesis'?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
The Romulans stopped being space romans after Balance of Terror. They're more like North Koreans now.
C'mon, man. There's no need to insult the Romulans that way!
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Old July 3 2014, 07:47 PM   #85
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Re: Why no Sela in 'Nemesis'?

Plus between the last time we would have seen her, there was the whole Dominion War. A war were Romulas sided with the Klingons and Federation against a bigger threat (regardless of how they were brought into the war). Thus Sela would likely have had a part in that war and been tempered more by it.
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