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Old July 16 2014, 02:00 AM   #61
Shaw
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Thanks guys!

Well, I was about to pull the model apart when I decided to add on a few more elements and borrowed the stand from my two-thirds scale 33 inch TOS Enterprise. I also decided to shoot it from the other side this time.


I included a shot of the original studio model under construction even though this model is more reflective of Jefferies' version of the design.
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Old July 19 2014, 09:42 PM   #62
publiusr
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

A real beaut'
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Old July 21 2014, 09:09 PM   #63
Mycroft Maxwell
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

I wonder how much money was blown on Phase II before it got scrapped for the motion picture? Model making is NOT cheap, especially studio models.

Anyways, that model you made looks fantastic. If I were a burglar, I'd steal it with a professional heist team as if i were knocking over fort knox. I really wish I had your patience, talent, and skills.
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Old July 21 2014, 10:18 PM   #64
sojourner
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

That's probably part of the reason TMP was so expensive to make. It had to absorb phase 2 costs.
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Old July 22 2014, 03:10 PM   #65
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

I remember reading an article where Gene Roddenberry was VERY upset with the model maker because of a great lack of detail for the big screen. Ended up scrapping it and having a entirely new model made by a new crew.

Shaw...your's is looking fantastic. Looking forward to more updates.
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Old July 22 2014, 08:41 PM   #66
Shaw
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Thanks guys!

... I guess I'll need to remember to lock my windows now.


Roddenberry never had any problems with the Phase II Enterprise, either model or design, for Phase II. The issues popped up when Paramount decided to make the pilot into a movie. This caused a large shift in how the production was being approached and new people were brought in from outside to help with the conversion.

Enter Robert Abel and Associates with Richard Taylor. These guys thought they knew what was needed to make movie effects that could match Star Wars. Taylor, who hated the Enterprise design anyways, wanted a bigger model (the Phase II Enterprise was almost 5.5 feet, the TMP model about 8 feet in length) and Magicam (a subsidiary of Paramount) wanted the credit for building the model to help with their resume. Basically, in the game of musical chairs in the transition from Phase II to TMP, Price/Loos were left without a seat.

The idea that a bigger model was needed was absolutely wrong. The Phase II Enterprise was the same scale as the Reliant, which looked awesome on the big screen. All this was done for political reasons, so people could give themselves credit for what was on screen.

And Taylor is one of the worst offenders of all, and is most likely responsible for the loss of the 33 inch TOS Enterprise loaned to Robert Abel and Associates (when Roddenberry called Bob Abel asking for the model back, Abel said he didn't know where it was). In Taylor's mind, everything from Phase II should have been scrapped and not really knowing anything about Star Trek, he didn't seem to realize that the 33 inch TOS Enterprise model wasn't part of Phase II. This is evident from a recent interview where he said...
"The model that was being built really didn't have that - I can't remember any lights that were built into it but it was about two and a half, three feet long or something."
So I think they discarded the 33 inch Enterprise model thinking it wasn't anything special.

Taylor went on to take credit for the redesigning of the nacelles from their original TOS shapes...
"A lot of people like it, of course, so what I did was redesign it by making it much more elongated, more streamlined. I totally redesigned the nacelles so they weren't, as in the original television series, like cigar containers, or circular. They were much more rectilinear and longer, a lot of parallel lines. I was very much trying to give the Enterprise an art deco look, a lot of horizontal lines, stretched things, and added a lot of detail everywhere on the surface and throughout the construction of the Enterprise, that's one of the primary things that I did with all of the models, not just Enterprise, but adding surface detail, enlarging the models, building light systems into them so that we could make multiple passes."
But those were things that Jefferies had actually done (and Probert built upon). And the Phase II Enterprise studio model, which was almost five and a half feet long, was intended to be far more lit than the TMP Enterprise ended up being.

In the interview they show a comparison of the early TMP design with the Franz Joseph plans of the Enterprise to illustrate how much they changed things. A more honest comparison would have been to show their Enterprise design with Jefferies' Phase II design...


But the Phase II model was used in the end. Parts were used to make up the destroyed Enterprise in ST III...


And additional elements were used to make the USS Bozeman in TNG.

Later when Planet Hollywood asked for items for their restaurant chain, Paramount commissioned Price to build five TMP Enterprise models which he built using elements from his Phase II Enterprise molds (which he still has).


So yes, it was an expensive endeavor to build a large studio model like the Phase II Enterprise. But even though it wasn't used as the Phase II Enterprise, the work was used over time.



As for my build, here are a few more shots of the model...


Hopefully I'll get some time to work on it in the next couple days.
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Old July 22 2014, 08:52 PM   #67
137th Gebirg
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Shaw wrote: View Post
The idea that a bigger model was needed was absolutely wrong. The Phase II Enterprise was the same scale as the Reliant, which looked awesome on the big screen. All this was done for political reasons, so people could give themselves credit for what was on screen.
I was always under the impression that Doug Trumbull wanted a larger model for the movie, not necessarily because the other was too small, but because he wanted to convey the sheer scale and massiveness of the ship in comparison to humans (particularly in the drydock scene), something that was arguably missing in TOS and Phase II. He wanted to see hull plating and rivets and decals and all kinds of detail that you probably couldn't as easily convey on a model the size of the Phase II. In fact, I recall one article (YEARS ago) mentioning that Trumbull wanted the final model MUCH bigger (17 feet comes to mind but I could be mis-remembering) but simply couldn't due to budgetary reasons. Anyways, bloody Ha-UUUGE!

Scale being heavily focused (perhaps too much at times) later on when the Enterprise is shown as a miniscule dot inside V'Ger - initially blowing the audience away with how big the Enterprise is, yet juxtaposed only minutes later by how small it is and how insignificant we humans are on the galactic scale.

I gathered the desire was more out of artistic intent than one of politics. in fact, this is the first time I've ever heard that people were fighting over ownership the miniature for the purposes of resume bragging rights.

Learn something new every day, I guess...
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Old July 22 2014, 09:11 PM   #68
Shaw
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Yeah, the TMP model was pretty much done before Trumbull joined the production... which was when Taylor and Robert Abel and Associates were asked to leave the production. In the end the modifications from the original TMP design to what we got on-screen was done by Trumbull and company... and even that was partly because of damage to the Enterprise model while in storage waiting to be filmed (the bridge/B/C deck was damaged by a leak and replaced with a new design).

The interesting thing is that the Phase II Enterprise has a lot in common with the TNG Enterprise. Apparently it was thought that lighting effects would offset the smaller resolution of the TV screen when viewing effects because the Phase II nacelles were to be quite lit up (blue along both the insides and outsides, amber for the fronts) much like the TNG model (blue along both the insides and outsides, red for the fronts). All of that was removed from the design when it was converted to the TMP Enterprise which had very little nacelle lighting (and the Reliant and Excelsior models had none).

But yes, Magicam wanted to build the TMP Enterprise... they actually wanted to build the Phase II Enterprise, but were left building the drydock and orbital station instead (because they didn't have enough experience for the Enterprise). Magicam may have been part of Paramount, but they were trying to get business throughout the industry.
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Old July 22 2014, 09:37 PM   #69
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

What parts of the Bozeman were from the Phase II ship molds?
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Old July 22 2014, 10:02 PM   #70
Shaw
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

The bridge/B/C deck... because both the Phase II Enterprise and Reliant were approximately the same scale, they used Phase II parts to make the ship seem older than a normal Miranda class (which had been seen a lot in TNG). And they didn't even add a dome, so the structure that was to hold the lighting element for the dome is easily seen (just like it was in the photos of the unfinished Phase II model).
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