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Old September 7 2014, 11:44 PM   #91
OpenMaw
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Truly beautiful. I love this version of the Enterprise, and you're doing her magnificently.

I'm glad to see the orange bussards too. I've seen a few takes where they were either left plain or they were done in a blue, and it just doesn't feel right if they're not red/orange/maroon.
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Old September 8 2014, 12:34 AM   #92
Maurice
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Hey Shaw, I thought some of the plans indicated the nacelle "chin guard" bits were to be omitted. Am I misremembering?
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Old September 8 2014, 03:50 AM   #93
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

There's just something very early-to-mid-70s about the Phase II Enterprise. It does look more like a literal "refit" of the TOS Enterprise, but aesthetically, what the franchise needed was a bolder statement, and the refit delivered. IMHO, the PII Enterprise would have been satisfactory on a weekly series, but the refit is a work of art, and only the refit could have been able to properly "sell" the sense of awe and majesty in the various beauty-passes as it was mated with Goldsmith and Horner's music.
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Old September 8 2014, 12:53 PM   #94
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

OpenMaw wrote: View Post
I'm glad to see the orange bussards too.
This is one of the neatest revelations for me.
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Old September 12 2014, 06:55 PM   #95
Shaw
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Thanks guys!

Maurice wrote: View Post
Hey Shaw, I thought some of the plans indicated the nacelle "chin guard" bits were to be omitted. Am I misremembering?
I know I left them off many of my drawings because I knew they were a feature I'd need to add on later (and Price/Loos were doing the same thing). I focused on the major elements that I knew I needed to include on my master, and less on the elements that were going to be added to the final nacelles.

But all of Jefferies' drawings seem to include them that I can tell. They are a bit more refined by the final plans for the model though.



I've done a little more painting, some weathering and started attaching the nacelles to the pylons.


Okay, another quick-n-dirty test assembly. Things are mostly set or taped in place... just with less tape now that the nacelles can sorta hold themselves up now.


After I took those shots I put her back to rest upside-down. I'm pretty sure the attachments have cured, but we'll give it a while before having her stand on her own for any great length of time.
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Old September 12 2014, 07:39 PM   #96
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

You know, not only can you BUILD, but you can LIGHT.
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Old September 12 2014, 11:03 PM   #97
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

This looks fantastic and I take back my remarks about the bevel between the bussard and the rest of the nacelle. Looks great.
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Old September 13 2014, 05:32 AM   #98
OpenMaw
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Question!

I've looked at some of the schematics and stuff, but I can't honestly tell. What is the situation with the deflector? Will it have an actual dish or a spoke or anything sticking out there, or is it just pushed back into the stardrive?
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Old September 14 2014, 12:56 AM   #99
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

That looks great!
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Old September 14 2014, 03:43 PM   #100
Shaw
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Wow, thanks guys!


OpenMaw wrote: View Post
I've looked at some of the schematics and stuff, but I can't honestly tell. What is the situation with the deflector? Will it have an actual dish or a spoke or anything sticking out there, or is it just pushed back into the stardrive?
What you see on the model is pretty much what you get. A lot of people have attempted to fill in the blanks in Jefferies' plans (often times including elements from TMP) to complete the Phase II Enterprise. I attempted to do a set of plans in 2007 after doing a clean-up project of some of Jefferies plans (which you can find here) but stopped when I realized that I'd be putting too much of my own ideas into the design rather than stay true to Jefferies' vision (and as I didn't work on Star Trek, I shouldn't pollute someone else's creative work by adding in my own). That was why I stopped working on this back then.

I had continued to collect data since then and was getting ready to start reevaluating where I was at on this when Brick Price contacted me. That is what moved this project from being something I might start working on to one of my main projects.

Still, I didn't know the Phase II design as well as the TOS design and I didn't want to bother Price with questions that I could have (and should have) learned on my own. I favor active learning, so I decided to build a study model (this model) using what I had of Jefferies' work to learn the design.

The thing about the Phase II Enterprise is that this was where Jefferies revisited many of his old ideas or ideas that couldn't be implemented on the TOS Enterprise because of cost. For example, Jefferies didn't really like the cylindrical warp engines of the TOS Enterprise, and wanted to change them by the time the series was going to air in 1966 (almost two years after the Enterprise models had been built). The answer he got was no... the models were expensive and that kind of change would cost too much, plus they had already spent a ton of money shooting stock footage of the models during the filming of Where No Man Has Gone Before. Jefferies would later use his engine ideas in the third season of TOS on the Klingon Battle Cruiser.

But you were asking about the deflector dish, so lets look at just the evolution of that part of the Enterprise.

When Jefferies sold Roddenberry on the Enterprise design that we know today, this is what was on the page...


This was a much smaller Enterprise and the primary hull was to land (much like the C-57D in Forbidden Planet). After a number of refinements, this is what was finally approve by Roddenberry for Jefferies to start making plans of for the model builders...


And this is a segment of those final plans...


As you can see, no deflector dish. Jefferies, being an aviation fan, had all that equipment behind a nose cone much like how we have it on jet planes today. He felt that as little of the equipment should be outside the ship as possible.

At the last minute (October of 1964) Roddenberry decided that the Enterprise was too small and asked Jefferies to scale her up (to her final size). He also asks for some additional details on the model and something to help bring the model to life (by adding movement). This is when the deflector dish was added/exposed. The design called for the deflector dish to be able to move and point, which is why the final plans of the Enterprise have a hinge behind the deflector (which was built into the model as well).


Well, as you know, this was never used. Eventually the Enterprise got movement via the lighting effects in the nacelles, but the deflector dish was static during the original series.

Fast forward to 1977 and Roddenberry asks Jefferies to upgrade the Enterprise design. Jefferies didn't want the dish originally, so he pulled it back into the rest of the assembly to make a unified piece of equipment.


Later that design would evolve when Jefferies' plans were used as the foundation of the TMP design and the bowl feature would become transparent (and back lit) and lose the emitter element altogether.

So yeah, the dish wasn't something Jefferies' originally wanted. And when it wasn't originally used as intended he had no problem working the design back towards his original idea.


Update...

I did a little work on the upper surface of the primary hull, I'm still doing a bit of work on the model so I didn't put as many elements in place for this set of shots as before.

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Old Yesterday, 09:16 PM   #101
OpenMaw
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Wow, thanks for continuing to provide such detailed BG information. That's great! I had seen the original sketches and designs but never really put the two pieces together. It makes perfect sense that sensitive equipment be shelled and protected if it can be.


Once again, she's looking beautiful.
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Old Today, 12:59 AM   #102
Maurice
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

Hey Shaw, did you ever follow up with Price to find out if he had any information that you have't been privy to?
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Old Today, 03:50 AM   #103
Shaw
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Re: Phase II Enterprise Study Model

OpenMaw wrote: View Post
Once again, she's looking beautiful.
Thanks!

Maurice wrote: View Post
Hey Shaw, did you ever follow up with Price to find out if he had any information that you have't been privy to?
Yes, and he still has a lot of stuff from back then (including the original molds for the model... as well as the altered ones for the Planet Hollywood TMP models).

The more I examined what I had from Jefferies and where the studio model was going, the more I realized that I needed to treat these as two different projects.

While Price/Loos had far more access to Jefferies than anyone else working on Phase II, that still wasn't a lot of access. Jefferies tried to get as much information down on the page as possible, but in doing so he made it hard to make out some elements.

For example, the studio model plans show the phaser assembly coming out of the base of the dorsal pylon with thin wedge shapes supporting it top and bottom. The way Jefferies had drawn this on the page it is hard to see (I didn't even notice it until I was actually building the model), and Price/Loos saw it as a bend in the leading edge of the dorsal (which looks a bit like Jefferies' earlier drawings).


Similarly, the nacelle support pylons of the studio model had cross sections that looked more like the TMP Enterprise, but Jefferies had designed it to have a wing like cross section (which is how I built mine on this study model).

So without Jefferies right there to answer questions, Price/Loos had to do their best... which was great. The model was looking awesome for where they had gotten to. But there are differences and I'd love to take four or five days to visit Price to interview him on the designing/building of that Enterprise, look over what he still has (drawings, decals and molds of the model) and then document how the studio model was going to turn out (basically going forward from where they left off). Price has been kind enough to give me tons of background info on that period of Trek production during phone conversations, but I'd still like to get the chance to sit down with him in person if possible.

Sadly, this is a really expensive hobby... and to do what I'd like to do would really require finding some way to off set the cost. But if I can find a way to pay for it, I'll try to make it happen.
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