It may be that I have missed or overlooked some things, therefore I would welcome some insights into the following questions. 1. What was the reason the war? The rise of United Earth, with the growth of human colonies all over the place, and/or the increased inter-species cooperation? 2. Whatever the reason, why was there no Romulan War in “A Less Perfect Union”? Or was there? 3. On whose side was Sopek ultimately? Was he a Vulcan agent, some double or triple agent? 4. Was the drone-ship idea completely abandoned? Why? Were Reman telepaths or the odd Romulan one incompatible? 5. Battle of Charon What if. By the time the first allied fleet arrived the situation changed from 24 (Earth) vs 81 (Romulan) to about 11 (Earth) + 31 (Klingon and Andarian) vs 38 (Romulan), Romulans lose 6 to sabotage, then there are some Romulan reinforcements – here I need confirmation, were there Romulan reinforcements? – by the time the second allied fleet came it was 1:2 in Romulan favor – did they just destroy over 26 ships? – end some 30+ Vulcan, Andorian, and Telarite ships arrive. I am asking what would have happened if no allied ships had arrived, if no sabotage occurred, basically if it was an all-or-nothing battle between Humans and Romulans.
First off, with "A Less Perfect Union", that story takes place in a universe that diverged from the main timeline shortly after the events of "Demons/Terra Prime", with Earth adopting a human-only philosophy.
The reason for the Romulan decision to wage war was the combination of rapid human expansion and human-fostered inter-species integration. The Romulan Star Empire was a larger and more developed civilization than Earth's sphere in the mid-22nd century, and arguably the natural hegemon of this part of the galaxy. Earth, by becoming so big so quickly and by bringing together different rival species, was a threat. In "A Less Perfect Union", Earth's failure to join the emergent Federation is the thing that prevented the Romulans from waging preventative war. In the end, Sopek ended up living in exile on Romulus, his mind gutted by Tal Shi'ar interrogation tactics, his usefulness at an end. On the subject of the drone ships, they just weren't necessary. Why act surrepetitiously to promote a war when you're already openly waging war? What would be the point? The description of the Battle of Cheron that we got seems clear: without alien support, first of Andorian and Klingon freelancers then of regular Andorian, Tellarite and Vulcan forces, Earth's forces would have been crushed at the Battle of Cheron. Vulcan's government expected that if the humans were defeated there, Earth would fall to the Romulans.
^Alright, I have to expand on some of the questions and comment on the answers. 1.+2. Tomswift2002 and rfmcdpei right back at you. You have to remember that both the Romulan incidents happened before the timelines split, the Romulans showed themselves to be belligerent. Also do not forget all the Romulan agents in the Security ministry on Vulcan. If we take the primary reasons of the Romulan War as the rise of Earth and the growing interstellar cooperation at face value, you have to realize that they were equally of value in “A Less Perfect Union”. I may be biased from the 23rd century view, where we see Earth strong as ever and a union of different races in the Intestellar Coallition, so why did the Romulans not intervene. I concede that these 2 sides stood primarily against each other, so the Romulans may have played in the shadows. It is just, that there are at least 3 known timelines where the Romulan War happened even though Earth was not a player in those timelines. 3. This still does not answer as to for what side he was working for. Was he a Vulcan who joined the Ejhoi Ormiin of his free will, a Vulcan radical? Or an Ejhoi Ormiin spy in Tal Shiar that was sent to Vulcan? 4. Well given that they required a relative crew of one. That a drone ship was equal to a allied cruiser. That they possessed a holographic “cloaking” device and self-repair ability. I would say they were quite a powerful tool. Were they perhaps too expensive? 5. If someone wants to do a story, then just send me some papers, I will sign them and divorce myself from the idea. Perhaps a better question would be how important was the battle itself to the peace treaty. Was the peace agreement started because the Romulans lost those 81 ships and due to the bluff of Vulcans, Andorians, and Telarites re-entering the war? If I extrapolate the end result from the first part of the battle, Romulans would have won with some 10 ships remaining, would this had meant that Earth would had no chance at all? I must note that I do not trust Vulcan analysts, as they operate from inaccurate data. P.S. I am just try to answer my question to my satisfaction, I apologize if I am a pain in the butt.
Which ones? I can only think of "The Tears of Eridanus" one. TRW doesn't answer that question. Not sure whether any other work did. Is he ethnically Romulan or Vulcan? Good question. I seem to remember a line that Remans weren't powerful telepatchs enough. The Aenar controlled the ships across lightyears. Even if the self-repair was expensive in the 22nd century, I wonder why such a revolutionary tech wouldn't be developed afterwards. Maybe it became standard, and that's why hero ships survive heavy pounding so much? I, for one, find your questions valuable. If been asking myself some of those for a time but was unwilling to re-read MAM's The Romulan War.
Sorry, that's not how it works here. We are lucky enough to have authors visiting this site and interacting with us regularly, and we do not want to put them in a situation where they write a story and then one day somebody comes out of the woodwork saying they suggested something vaguely similar in a forum that the author may or may not have ever seen. That's why we have a strict no story idea policies here, it's the only way to keep our authors interacting with us.
Which timelines were these? United Earth and the Interstellar Coalition were strong, and could cooperate, but were equally rivals with an often-tense relationship. Separately, they weren't the potentially overwhelming threat that led to Romulan intervention. Am I correct in remembering that "A Less Perfect Union" had the prospect of Romulan intervention if United Earth did join the alt-Federation? Apparently the former. I suspect that cost was key. In an environment where Romulus was already openly waging war, the particular strengths of the drone ship might have been irrelevant. (The issue of finding a telepath could also be important. I don't think we've got anything on Romulan psionics.) Perhaps a better question would be how important was the battle itself to the peace treaty. Was the peace agreement started because the Romulans lost those 81 ships and due to the bluff of Vulcans, Andorians, and Telarites re-entering the war? If I extrapolate the end result from the first part of the battle, Romulans would have won with some 10 ships remaining, would this had meant that Earth would had no chance at all? I must note that I do not trust Vulcan analysts, as they operate from inaccurate data.[/QUOTE] Why would they operate from inaccurate data? The humans also thought that the Battle of Cheron would be a make or break scenario for Earth, especially with most of their high-warp ships dedicated to the battle. Remaining Earth military forces would be too spread out to quickly respond to a further Romulan push, especially if the Romulans managed to bring their experimental warp 7 ships online. Going directly to the book, the actual intervention by (regular) Andorian, Tellarite, and Vulcan military forces was most important on a symbolic level. If they hadn't intervened, then the Romulans would have been able to destroy the last ships at Cheron, including most of Earth's high-end military ships. (If no one had intervened, then the Battle of Cheron would have been a clear, if costly, Romulan victory.) More importantly, that lack of intervention would have meant that Earth was isolated, with no other local power being willing to intervene to save its civilization from an aggressive empire already responsible for billions of deaths on multiple planets including well-known Coridan Prime and Draylax. A victorious Romulus would presumably have continued transferring its larger forces to the Earth front, which would fall.
Which timelines were these? United Earth and the Interstellar Coalition were strong, and could cooperate, but were equally rivals with an often-tense relationship. Separately, they weren't the potentially overwhelming threat that led to Romulan intervention. Am I correct in remembering that "A Less Perfect Union" had the prospect of Romulan intervention if United Earth did join the alt-Federation? Apparently the former. I suspect that cost was key. In an environment where Romulus was already openly waging war, the particular strengths of the drone ship might have been irrelevant. (The issue of finding a telepath could also be important. I don't think we've got anything on Romulan psionics.) Perhaps a better question would be how important was the battle itself to the peace treaty. Was the peace agreement started because the Romulans lost those 81 ships and due to the bluff of Vulcans, Andorians, and Telarites re-entering the war? If I extrapolate the end result from the first part of the battle, Romulans would have won with some 10 ships remaining, would this had meant that Earth would had no chance at all? I must note that I do not trust Vulcan analysts, as they operate from inaccurate data.[/QUOTE] Why would they operate from inaccurate data? The humans also thought that the Battle of Cheron would be a make or break scenario for Earth, especially with most of their high-warp ships dedicated to the battle. Remaining Earth military forces would be too spread out to quickly respond to a further Romulan push, especially if the Romulans managed to bring their experimental warp 7 ships online. Going directly to the book, the actual intervention by (regular) Andorian, Tellarite, and Vulcan military forces was most important on a symbolic level. If they hadn't intervened, then the Romulans would have been able to destroy the last ships at Cheron, including most of Earth's high-end military ships. (If no one had intervened, then the Battle of Cheron would have been a clear, if costly, Romulan victory.) More importantly, that lack of intervention would have meant that Earth was isolated, with no other local power being willing to intervene to save its civilization from an aggressive empire already responsible for billions of deaths on multiple planets including well-known Coridan Prime and Draylax. A victorious Romulus would presumably have continued transferring its larger forces to the Earth front, which would fall.
Here's something of note: the alternate version of the Romulan commander in "Balance of Terror" tells alternate T'Pol in 2264 in A Less Perfect Union that the Romulan Star Empire first took an interest in Earth when humans started launching interplanetary probes using the same nuclear technology that they threatened each other with. Then humans achieved warp drive mere years after World War III. But fortunately, according to the commander, the Vulcans were there to hold humans back for a time. Then humans achieved warp 5 and tried to found a multispecies coalition. T'Pol recalls the drone ship incident and asks if the Empire feared peace. The commander says no, but the Empire feared that once at the head of a multispecies coalition, humans would revert to their base instincts. Fortunately the Terra Prime incident put a stop to human membership in any interstellar coalition. And now in 2264, the Romulans once again want peace by sending rival powers into war so that the Empire does not suffer casualties. What are you talking about? The Romulans don't exist in The Tears of Eridanus reality.
Right! So, which three timelines? I remember there wasn't a Romulan War in DTI: Forgotten History without Humans. There aren't any other pertinent timelines I can think of.
Actually there was a Romulan War in that timeline, directed against Vulcan. And the Vulcans won, conquering and assimilating the Romulans.
I believe the Romulans are at war with the Klingons in the First Frontier timeline. Maybe you're also thinking of the second Romulan War, a conflict in an erased alternate 25th century, mentioned by Agent Daniels in Watching the Clock.
Maybe he's thinking of "Starfleet Year One" that was written in 2000, prior to Enterprise's airing. That novel started with the end battles of the Romulan War, and went to the launching of the Daedalus class starships.
So we got a(nother) Vulcan-Romulan war in Forgotten History, and a Klingon-Romulan war in First Frontier. I misremebered Forgotten History.
I think that in most realities where the Romulans exist as we know them, they're going to be at war with somebody in the 22nd/23rd century.
Well let's see about the Myriad Universes via a list. Spoilers ahead! A Less Perfect Union: diverges in 2155, RSE tries and fails to spark war between United Earth and Interstellar Coalition in 2264, on good terms with Interstellar Coalition in 2364 Places of Exile: diverges about New Year's Day 2374, near-identical RSE involvement in Dominion War Seeds of Dissent: diverges at indeterminate point no later than 1996, Khanate of Earth fights and wins Romulan Wars of the 2100s against the RSE, RSE under siege by the Borg in the 24th century The Chimes at Midnight: diverges in 2237, following Federation-Klingon War of 2285-2293, Federation-Romulan relations break down over "metaweapon use" by the Federation A Gutted World: diverges about New Year's Day 2369, Founders instigate Klingon-Romulan War in 2373 which draws in the Federation Brave New World: diverges in 2236, RSE successfully supports House of Duras takeover in 2368, Romulan-Klingon Alliance reformed, Alliance has strong tensions with the Federation between 2368 and 2378, RSE joins Federation sometime between 2378 and 2478 The Embrace of Cold Architects: diverges about New Year's Day 2367, Romulans not involved in story The Tears of Eridanus: diverges in 4th century, Romulans do not exist Honor in the Night: diverges in 2267, only Romulan involvement in story is reference to Khitomer Massacre that was stopped by Starfleet The Last Generation: Captain Braxton changes history an indeterminate number of times, Romulans not involved in story except for Ambassador Nanclus's delegation's presumable background presence on Khitomer in 2293
I suggested in Watching the Clock that the Eugenics Wars were the consequence of Temporal Cold War intervention in Earth history. If so, then Seeds might represent a timeline where the efforts of those behind the intervention were not thwarted by Gary Seven. Which might put the divergence point as far back as 1968. (Then again, I like to think that Roddenberry's Genesis II/Planet Earth universe is also an alternate timeline that split off from the Eugenics Wars, with the Wars being bigger and more destructive.) Or rather, they don't exist as a distinct population/culture from the Vulcans. At least one individual who is identified as Romulan in the Prime universe, Tal, exists on "Minshara" in TToE. No doubt there are others.
So maybe the Seeds of Dissent reality can still give rise to the Order of Omega because as Jamran Harnoth said, "the long-term results could have been impressive nonetheless. As I said, improvement comes from surmounting obstacles."
^I'd say the SoD reality is pretty much the culmination of what the Order was pursuing. Or at least one possible version of it.