Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

Not to mention the following exchange, from GENERATIONS:

Picard: So I thought, you know, you might know something about the Nexus that can help us....

Guinan: That's some bad shit right there, Jean Luc. Some REAL bad shit. You don't wanna go in that Nexus thing. You'll never want to leave.

Picard: Well I don't know, I might be okay if I just....

Guinan: It's crack, captain. You hear me boy? The Nexus is crack cocaine. Jesus, do I need to spell this out to you?! You're gonna be in BIG trouble if you go near it. Trust me on this one.

Picard: What about the native life-forms on Veridian III?

Guinan: What about them?!

Picard: Well, I just don't think....

Guinan: Crack cocaine, Jean Luc. Just say NO.

 

I'd rather talk with Guinian about a problem than Troi. Nevermind personality issues, which Guinan wins with, but I just don't like the idea of of a therapist who can read my mind at any given time.

 

Why, isn't that what therapists try to do anyway?

In any case knowing TNG, there's a high probability of Troi's ability not working during your therapy session due to some plot convenience

 

Not much chance of anonymity on a starship, even one with over 1000 people on board

I'd agree Guinan was a better written "counselor", official or not.

 

Let's be fair, we didn't see Troi in her counseling sessions all that much so it's hard to judge her based on her "always being on the bridge to tell us what the AOTW was feeling." That was likely a small part of her job and only did it as it's what Picard wanted. (and hardly a common bridge position.)

Given that she has a degree and/or license to practice as a counselor I'd say she is the better one.

 

(To Wesley)
Guinan: Shut up kid.

Guinan wins.

 

For a worldly advice, love and imaginary friends.... Guinan.

A professional opinion like trying to get over a dead loved one, Troi.

 

Put it this way: Guinan almost could have appeared in TOS. She is a kind of character everybody recognizes, and a lot of people like to talk to: a bartender. Bartenders are universal. They'll always be needed. They say things that make sense.

Troi? That's pedantic psychobabble all right, but it was Gene Roddenberry's. By the time TNG came around Gene was fully immersed in it. That's why the first season was so wishy-washy. Gene bought into all that. If not for that psychobabble, the writers would never have thought that a show set aboard a starship would need a 'counselor' in the first place.

Although: In the Voyager relaunch, there is a counselor as well, but it's a guy named Hugh Cambridge, who is apparently written to resemble Gregory House. Can you imagine HOUSE as your counselor?

 

`
Doctor Boyce: "Sometimes a man will tell his bartender things he'll never tell his doctor."

 

I wonder if Troi and Guinan hated eachother. Did they ever have scenes together? Racking my brain and coming up blank...

All I'm remembering is some scene where Guinan tells Troi she's going after her job.

 

I might be forgetting some incident, but I think you're right, of all the characters Deanna and Guinan never spoke to each other.

Strange.

 

There was that episode (The Loss, was it?) where Troi lost her "powers", and Guinan had said something along the lines that she could be the counselor, but I don't remember if that was some kind of psychology to get Troi not to give up on herself, or what.

 

No, it was a ruse by Guinan to get Troi to realize she didn't need her "powers" in order to do her job.

 

That's what I meant by "but I don't remember if that was some kind of psychology to get Troi not to give up on herself, or what.". I should have used the term 'reverse psychology', or something.

 

If I was captain I'd order Troi to not be counselor for a while since losing her powers seemed very traumatic. Just pop by a starbase and pick one up for a couple weeks. Hey there's an idea, a season with a new counselor, pulaski style.

 

If I was on the Enterprise and I had a problem I wouldn't seek neither.

 

My favorite Troi moment is in "Man of the People", though she was under an alien influence at the time.

 

I like how in "Hollow Pursuits" she has a session with the obviously twitchy and nervous Barclay and she has to realize how she dresses (in a boob/cleavage showing dress) that might make people with social anxieties crazy (at the very least she should sense it.) So she turns down the lights, tells Barclay to close his eyes, and she sits next to him talking in a soothing voice and then she gets confused when Barclay gets panicky and bolts out of the room.

 

Wow, forgot about that one. Under an alien influence or no, how the hell would Troi ever recover a rapport with that lady? That's no different than an "under the influence" Data trying to kill you: how would you ever feel comfortable around him again?

 

Thing is, although we saw more "successes" from Guinan, they seemed to be addressing different situations:

- Troi handled actual emotional issues (orphaned children on separate occasions) and mental diseases (Barclay).
Those cannot be solved in a brief chat.

- Guinan handled the ethical dilemmas of otherwise perfectly healthy people.
Those can be solved in a brief chat.