Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Besides Hand and Koenig, Ward killed several other agents and shot at Coulson (and Lola). He's way past redemption.

 

Ward also shot those two cops in the street, and who knows how many cops in the diner. He's killed far too many people for it to be remotely credible that he's secretly a good guy.

 

He also helped Hydra raid the Fridge and went out of his way to alert Garrett to the hidden Gravitonium, which Garrett would have missed otherwise. Odd behavior for a double agent. "Here, let me make sure that this terrifying Weapon of Mass Destruction falls into the wrong hands, just to cement my cover."

But, yeah, the fact that he garroted lovable Patton Oswalt and stuck his lifeless body in the pantry is a deal-breaker all by itself.

"I'm so deep undercover that I slaughtered a quirky comic-relief character and left his body for my teammates to find."

 

^Plus, at this stage who would he be working undercover for? SHIELD is gone. Fury is officially dead. Maria Hill has gone to the private sector and it seems just about every other high level agent is either Hydra, dead or giving testimony in DC.

He is so far beyond redemption he can't even see it from where he is with a telescope.

 

Agreed. Hell, I thought Hand + the two guys on the plane were more than enough. Line crossed forever.

 

Right back atcha.

 

The closest Ward can get to redemption is a self sacrifice action.

 

Masshyposis might work?

Stark once used a massive global brainwashing machine A.I.M. was going to use to take over the world to erase his public knowledge of his dual identity form the gestalt human conciousness and consensus.

Time travel would most certainly work.

Oh no.

This bad Ward dies, and then a good Ward from a parallel time line shows up to take his place.

I hate it when that happens.

 

The real world issue I noticed on another entertainment board I am on is that while AoS has two Asians in the main cast there were no darker skinned toned people in a large cast. Trip being added would correct what is now seen as a deficiency TV producers are always being attacked for.

If we are to believe the show then Agents Hand, Garrett, Coulson, Blake and Sitwell where the SHIELD equivalents to generals under Director Fury and Hill. And that high up resignations are the political statement you make if you really have a big objection,

 

Yeah, I'm really enjoying Trip as well and I hope he becomes a permanent member of the team. I love the dynamic he brings to the group, and he essentially fills the role that Ward left vacant when he revealed his true colors. I think by revealing Trip's strong connection to the MCU (as the grandson of--presumably--Gabe Jones) they've suggested that he'll be sticking around, but obviously I could be wrong.

 

Let's not sink that low.. comics are sometimes worse than daily soaps, especially with the killing and resurrecting fan favorite characters.

Right now they are apparently going to kill Wolverine in the comics, who wants to bet he'll return a year or two later (and boosts comic sales)? Captain America was killed off a few years ago and that made national news.. he stayed dead for a while only to be brought back with another lame, comicbook style method.

If Shield ever sinks that low it's time to give it up though when i think about it Coulson's resurrection could also fall into that category though it works within that show.

I can't find a single workable solution to integrate Ward back into the team and restore Status Quo.. he's killed people left and right and betrayed everything Shield stood for.

He can only die while doing one last good thing (and it has to be epic) for the team to be given even a chance at forgiveness.

 

Hydra Island.

Hydra has recognized diplomatic status on the world stage, and Ward is their S.H.I.E.L.D. liaison.

A long time ago, it was almost a certainty that Illya Kuryakin was a former operative for the NKVD or the KGB, who had probably gone head to head with many, many, many American secret agents and survived over their dead bodies.

But he was gorgeous, so bo body cared.

 

How would a terrorist organization with an origin in Nazi Germany get a diplomatic status?

And there's no way Coulson would accept Ward back into the team even if ordered to do so. He'd rather resign (and i assume so would the rest of the team).

 

How surly they are barely matters if Iran and North Korea are still allowed to cut bait.

All that matters is the physical solvency of Hydra Island.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Hydra_Island

(There's also a real Hydra Island in Greece.)

After they make or take an island, diplomatic protection is not that far off.

In olden days you plant a flag, and 200 miles in every direction of that flag is yours, unless someone kills you and takes your flag. Claim what you want and then present the force of arms to keep it. I am describing exploration and invasion simultaneously.

In a less real, and modern world there are other options.

You may chose to set off a couple nukes, forcing the seabed to rise up, maybe piss a bunch of lava while you're at it. thus creating unclaimed land where there is no jurisdictional trouble. Basically if you have the resources, will and too much money, in a comic book universe it's not difficult to make an island, which has happened a couple times in comic books (And that awful Superman Movie). Doctor Demonicus did it too near the End of West Coast Avengers.

Meanwhile Hydra could buy or conquer an existing island, but building a country is not as difficult as you would think.

http://www.wikihow.com/Start-Your-Own-Country

I saw a documentary (Okay it was comedian making a massive pisstake, but it was still a bunch of real things that really happened) about an ordinary man trying to found his own country, which he did, so it is possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Start_Your_Own_Country

The real difficulty is being recognized as a country by other countries and invited to join the UN.

Being recognized by other countries as a state, after you have taken/found land, is as arduous as asking a pre-existing state their thoughts on your state of being, pun intended. You have to remember that the shitty little States gain credibility by recognizing other states, so it's worth their time to embiggen the catalogue of D-list countries.

After you've been recognized by a few Banana republics willing to be paid off, you are technically a country but then getting into the UN is hard if you're a bunch of terrorist NAZIs, but hardly impossible.

http://www.un.org/en/members/about.shtml

I'm not sure what stops a recognized State from signing into the Vienna Convention of Diplomatic Relations (1961) after you have been recognized as a nation state, but again money solves a lot of problems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_Diplomatic_Relations

But it's basically: (Island + lawyers + time = Country) + time + money = Diplomatic recognition.

 

Yeah but it would still be impossible to allow Al Quaeda to become a recognized state, any nation that would open up diplomatic relations to them would be automatically shunned by the world community (Al Quaeda being the real world analogy to Hydra).

Of course stranger things have happened in comics but they are mostly small time, personal changes such as former enemies becoming members of the main group (Emma Frost for example) but accepting Hydra as a government is too far out to make any sense in any show, movie or comic and i doubt the audience would follow in that direction, not when Marvel is trying very hard to get some realism and believability into their movies while toning down the more ridiculous and out there elements of the comics (which work there).

 

Well, that's one problem with Whedon series. Characters that in any real world scenario should be on death row for mass murder end up "good guys" because they "seek redemption."

 

African National Congress (ANC)
Hezbollah
Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA)
Irish Republican Army (IRA)
Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)

http://www.cfr.org/terrorism/terrorist-groups-political-legitimacy/p10159

This isn't a grand idea of mine I hold dear to my heart. i just considered a way where Ward could rejoin the team while still being a Hydra Agent who murdered a lot of people he really shoudn't have.

Oh shit.

Not an original thought in my head.

 

Time to bring this back up, Hydra in the MCU is linked to the Nazis and their is no turn and look the other way enemy of my enemy with Nazis in the mix.

 

It's not illegal (in America) to be a Nazi

Plenty of NeoNazis wandeirng about freerange.

Of course, is Baron Von Strucker in the movies the same guy from WWII or his grandson?