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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 7 2013, 06:04 AM   #286
The Mighty Monkey of Mim
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
The Sulu question was already addressed here; "Sulu" isn't a Japanese name and was taken from the Sulu Sea in a bid to give the character a Pan-Asian flavor.

Furthermore, we know Takei gave his personal blessing to the recasting after being approached by Abrams. In other words, changing the ethnicity of the actor wasn't taken lightly by the creative team. But that was then. This time around, things seem to have been a little more loosey-goosey.
Fine by me, and all the more to my point: Sulu doesn't have to be Japanese when played by a Japanese actor and then switch to being Korean when played by a Korean one. The actor's race can be changed without altering that of the character, especially when that character's race has never been clearly specified in-story. And even when a character's place of origin has been specifically established, this doesn't preclude casting an actor from another in the role. (For example, casting the Englishman Patrick Stewart in the role of the Frenchman Captain Picard.) So too it is with Khan. Being portrayed by an English actor doesn't make him English any more than being portrayed by a Mexican actor made him Mexican.
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Old June 7 2013, 11:57 AM   #287
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

The Mighty Monkey of Mim wrote: View Post
Fine by me, and all the more to my point: Sulu doesn't have to be Japanese when played by a Japanese actor and then switch to being Korean when played by a Korean one. The actor's race can be changed without altering that of the character, especially when that character's race has never been clearly specified in-story. And even when a character's place of origin has been specifically established, this doesn't preclude casting an actor from another in the role. (For example, casting the Englishman Patrick Stewart in the role of the Frenchman Captain Picard.) So too it is with Khan. Being portrayed by an English actor doesn't make him English any more than being portrayed by a Mexican actor made him Mexican.
Uh, Japanese isn't a race. Neither is Korean. Or English. Or Mexican. Nationality does not equal ethnicity.
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Old June 7 2013, 01:06 PM   #288
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

I feel like this is arguing semantics rather than addressing the point at issue, but if we must, we must. Race is an imprecise term, the definition of which depends on context. There are indeed distinct Japanese and Korean ethnic groups. After pointing out this distinction, I broadened the scope of my comments to that of "place of origin," because it furnished an additional example to further illustrate that we needn't view an actor's background as determinative of a character's, and thus that we needn't press ourselves to "explain" a discrepancy between them. You're right that ethnicity and nationality are not necessarily one and the same, but that really doesn't affect the substance of what I'm saying at all. Let's not be obtuse.
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Last edited by The Mighty Monkey of Mim; June 7 2013 at 01:17 PM.
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Old June 7 2013, 02:08 PM   #289
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

The Mighty Monkey of Mim wrote: View Post
I feel like this is arguing semantics rather than addressing the point at issue, but if we must, we must. Race is an imprecise term, the definition of which depends on context. There are indeed distinct Japanese and Korean ethnic groups. After pointing out this distinction, I broadened the scope of my comments to that of "place of origin," because it furnished an additional example to further illustrate that we needn't view an actor's background as determinative of a character's, and thus that we needn't press ourselves to "explain" a discrepancy between them. You're right that ethnicity and nationality are not necessarily one and the same, but that really doesn't affect the substance of what I'm saying at all. Let's not be obtuse.
Thanks a bunch. Right backatcha.

In case it wasn't obvious, I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is for people to demand that a character be a certain nationality, skin color, ethnicity, race, whatever. The attitude is rampant in forums like these, especially where this film is considered.

The fact that it even has to be discussed shows how far off GR's colorblind future is.

But hey, nice talking to ya.
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Old June 7 2013, 06:11 PM   #290
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

I tend to think that utopian visions of a "colorblind future" would center around things like equal opportunity and not judging people by their race/ethnicity.

As opposed to literally rendering oneself blind to observable racial differences. If that's the political correctness endgame, of what use is it?
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Old June 7 2013, 06:31 PM   #291
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

True racial equality, to me, is not how it was perceived in Star Trek, by making a point of the altruistic nature of actively ignoring ethnic differences and crowing about how they have an "evolved sensibility", but rather how it was perceived in the original series Battlestar Galactica.

In TOS BSG, you had two black officers, one Colonel Tigh, second-in-command of a massive warship, and the other Lt. Boomer, a capable pilot and tech-head, both seamlessly interacted with the rest of the crew and performing heroic acts without the slightest hint of preachy implication that this is how the audience should act as well. They just...were...and nobody made the slightest attempt at treating them any different from any of the other characters in the show, and were deemed just as important to the fabric of the plot without having it pointed out, "HEY! These guys are an equal part of the crew too!" like was seen so many times in Trek ad nasium. To me, that was a truly color-blind universe and is something we should strive for. Ironically, the almost century-old TV Show "Little Rascals" also showed the white kids hanging out with the black kids without giving any thought to ethnic concerns or differences - this, during a time of heavy segregation where people were still alive in America who were veterans of the Civil War!

There was a great line in G.I. Jane that I think fits the paradigm, when she's in the Commandant's office saying she's not there to "make statements" about becoming a Navy SEAL and get through the training, unassisted, like "everyone else". He responds, "If you were like everyone else, lieutenant, I suspect we wouldn't be making statements about not making statements, would we?"
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Old June 8 2013, 05:08 AM   #292
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

BillJ wrote: View Post
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...eview&id=16635

When I read that nine-page preview, am I the only one that feels like...

But they also reprise Kirk's closing monologue within the comic, so that's where the setting jumps.
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Old June 8 2013, 06:33 AM   #293
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...eview&id=16635

When I read that nine-page preview, am I the only one that feels like...

But they also reprise Kirk's closing monologue within the comic, so that's where the setting jumps.
That's because there is no one year gap.

Kirk had been in a coma for two weeks, that's all we know. The "nearly one year ago" line in Kirk's speech is referring to the events of the first movie, he then continues talking about how Pike made him Captain and how he took his oath and only now he understood what that really meant.

Edit: I know it wouldn't make sense to honor the people who died in the first movie, but that's the way I understood this. I might be wrong, though ...
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Old June 8 2013, 09:24 PM   #294
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...eview&id=16635

When I read that nine-page preview, am I the only one that feels like...

But they also reprise Kirk's closing monologue within the comic, so that's where the setting jumps.
That's because there is no one year gap.

Kirk had been in a coma for two weeks, that's all we know. The "nearly one year ago" line in Kirk's speech is referring to the events of the first movie, he then continues talking about how Pike made him Captain and how he took his oath and only now he understood what that really meant.

Edit: I know it wouldn't make sense to honor the people who died in the first movie, but that's the way I understood this. I might be wrong, though ...
I disagree. They had time to refit the Enterprise and there is no obvious damage to San Francisco. I would think they'd need more than two weeks to clean up after the Vengeance crash.

In my opinion, there is a one-year gap between the crash and the relaunch of the Enterprise.
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Old June 9 2013, 04:12 PM   #295
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Hell, these Klingons had gold rings glued to their foreheads..
One Klingon had a few cranial piercings.
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Old June 9 2013, 05:27 PM   #296
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Yeah, just one. And frankly, it didn't look bad at all. Gave him a creepier, more menacing and tribal warrior kind of appearance. Klingon appearances have been all over the board since "Errand of Mercy" back in 1967 and this one isn't really any more radical than others seen in the franchise since the development of vastly more sophisticated makeup techniques for ST:TMP.

I still think the TMP Klingons look more intimidating and nasty. I'm just glad these didn't rehash the "long-haired Viking biker gang" look that became the run of the mill, default makeup choice when depicting Klingons in the 24th century series and films. They were cool (especially warriors like General Martok), but it got pretty stale. The STID Klingons took the best of the updated makeup design and added a few intimidating twists, and it was a good choice.

If you're not going to tackle the Augment mutation virus afflicting the Empire around this time in history and you feel the need to show a Klingon with head ridges, might as well make him look as badass and cool as possible.
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