Well, that was certainly a tense episode! I simultaneously can't wait for next week but also don't want to see it because then it'll be over.
Yeah, this is another of my favourites this season, the other being the one with Margaret. Wow, what an episode! And I have to hand it to the casting department. They've done a bang-up job with Gillian's likeness. The end was rather powerful and chilling. But poor Nucky, to be saddled with Gillian just when he's lost everything.
Yeah, the casting department deserves huge praise for this season. The young Nucky, Eli, Commodore, and now Gillian were all perfect. I'm a bit iffy about the episode. They skipped so much of the war with that montage at the beginning, so I didn't get a sense of just how desperate things had gotten for Nucky, and his sudden willingness to stand down felt rushed. I blame this on the shortened season. Also, it's a pity about about Mickey. I imaged he would outlast everyone by not being important enough to kill, but he fell just before the final hurdle.
Yeah, I imagine they'd have been able to do it justice if they had a full season. It's a shame. But there's also the issue of the lower budget they had this season. I imagine that was also a factor in the decision to show a montage. So far we haven't seen any big shootouts. My guess is they're saving that for the finale.
Wow, another outstanding episode. From the importance of the flashbacks for Nucky and Gillian to the brutal showdown between Nucky and Eli against Luciano and Meyer. Poor Willie, just when Nucky and Eli thought they had got him away from the madness, he gets pulled right back in. Hopefully it won't damn him. At least, Nucky was able to chase off the faux-Jimmy. Going into this episode, I've been theorizing that Mabel's death is what causes Nucky to give up Gillian to the Commodore, but now I think it might be the reverse. I hope we get more than one scene of Margaret in the final episode. From the very beginning, I've loved every minute she's on screen. No shit! I feel like I somehow condemned the man. Actually, I read an interview with Terence Winter a month or so ago where he stated it was his choice to have the season shortened for storytelling reasons and not because of any budget or rating considerations. I find the decision surprising for the reasons you and others have stated.
Winter has a pilot under consideration at HBO so if HBO decided to have this shortened season, I don't imagine Winter would say so.
Hmmm, interesting. If he had done so for storytelling reasons, then I'm really surprised as the season doesn't feel like it had a chance to excell. It feels compromised to a certain extent, due to the time constraint. So if it really was a choice, I think it definitely would have benefited from having a longer season in order to have the season properly flow. There are just so many things about it that could have been handled better had they had the time to do it. An example is Rothstein. In a longer season, they would have been able to maybe have a prologue episode as a season opener, or at the very least have a some time set aside to showing how all of that went down. As it was, it seems that every plot thread is being dealt with very abruptly and coldly, which hurts the season overall. Was he rushed to his next series, I wonder?
Here are my predictions for tonight. I think it will mostly go down as it did as history tells it. Capone will want to ambush Nucky on his home turf. But Nucky's saving grace will be Capone getting caught for tax evasion, which will trickle down to Nucky who will also be caught for the same thing (as history recalls it). We will likely see a scene of an older Nucky after having served his sentence and ditching his life of crime. And if they do go the historical route, his death would be a natural one, in 1968. Edit: So, this is it?! *sigh* There's just so much I felt disappointed about the finale. Don't get me wrong, there was a lot of good stuff in this episode, especially with the way they kept cutting away back and forth between the time periods. This is one tactic that I felt kept things relevant and it was very seemlessly done, so I applaud them for that. But overall, it did not feel like a finale to me. I'll go back to my comments of the episodes feeling rushed, as this too had the same feeling. It also felt more like a regular episode, as if they were simply going through the motions. More comments inside the spoilers as I want to discuss things without spoiling. Spoiler: warning: spoilers beyond Also, Tommy Darmody? Really? I had heard several rumours with people guessing that it might be the case. My big problem with that is that Tommy was never a significant character. He never got much character development beyond what we saw as a kid and even went away for awhile, so our attention wasn't on him. So tonight, I found it a rather cheap way to end a series. I found it ultimately unsatisfying. And it only strengthened the feeling that they wanted to rush through it. I could maybe forgive it if maybe there had been more development time this season, but as it is, it felt like it had come out of nowhere, again due to the shortened season. The big bright spot for me was having that last scene together with Margaret. Oh and I have to say, beautiful scene with Capone and his son.
I don't know how you can possibly see it that way. I thought it was perfectly fitting and the finale itself was entirely superb.
Did not see the Tommy thing coming, the way they framed it, was this kid was paralleling Nucky's story when he was young, so a good twist there. I was wondering if they would kill Nucky off, but then again this is Nucky Thompson who is based on Nucky Johnson, his story is a little different and thus can die, unlike Capone, Lucky and Meyer. I knew Narcisse would die to.
I'm a bit underwhelmed, I think I was expecting 'more' ... It didn't really feel like a finale and more like they were going through a checklist of all the characters to give their arcs more or less closure. I liked this season a lot, yet the finale left me a bit cold.
Different people take away different things from what they see Didn't have a problem with what happened with Nucky. I even expected it. I just don't like the way they went about it. Most of my issues are not so much with the story, but with pacing and plotting issues that this season had, which I feel hampered the season's ability to tell that story. The shortened season really did a number on it. In fact, I feel most of the development went on in the flashbacks while the present-day stuff staggered on. So, it's for those reasons I felt it was unsatisfying. Oh and Beagleman, you're right on with the checklist analogy. That's what I felt too. There was little to no emotional engagement, aside from a few standout scenes, ie Margaret & Nucky, Capone and his son. Not only this episode but the season as a whole felt that way. That's part of what I feel it struggled with and why I feel awkward about the end.
I was more reminded of Jimmy back in season 1 and even noted the physical similarities, so I'm actually disappointed in myself for not realizing he was actually Tommy. Very nice twist and a poignant way of ending the show, especially intertwined with Gillian's story. I figured Nucky was going to die and on the boardwalk, so that part wasn't surprising at least. I didn't expect Dr. Narcisse to return, but as soon as he did, I figured he was going to die. Not necessary to show, but it was still kind of nice nonetheless. The final scene was scene with Margaret was very touching, as was Nucky's farewell to Eli and Al's with his son. Now I want to go back and rewatch the whole series.
I thought it was a decent ending. I have some issues with the episode, but they didn't hurt it too badly, and as a finale it did a reasonable job. I had read the rumours that that guy was Tommy Darmody, but I didn't expect him to do what he did in the end, so that remained somewhat surprising. At least I understand now why they kept Gillian around after season 2, which had bothered me the last few years, but it works as a suitable denouncement for Nucky's character at the end. The season as a whole was good but rushed. Boardwalk has always been a slow paced show, which frustrated me a little during the first season, but I later found that to be part of its charm. The glacial pace allowed the show to delve into the characters more, and the complex social order of that period of history. The problem with season 5 was that the shorter season required the plot to move faster than in previous years, but the writers wanted to keep doing the slower paced stories at the same time, so the season moved in strange spurts, like a struggling engine. It was entertaining all the way, but not entirely satisfying.
I had seen the Tommy theory floating around too last week, and I was thinking oh yeah right... because Tommy was only like what, 6 last time we saw him? Meaning he should only be around 13 now. And that guy was too old to be Tommy. I guess he came down with a bout of Rapid Aging TV Kid Syndrome in the interim. I guess we should all be thankful it didn't end with Nucky sitting in a diner, looking up, and the screen cuts to black.
Yep, that's pretty much what I've struggled to identify. I think you nailed it. It all contributed to me, a feeling of disconnect as well. As for Gillian, I'm still not convinced she really needed to be there after her own arc had ended. Everything in season 4 and 5 could have simply been alluded to with the same outcome in the end, but like you, I do understand a bit better why they did.
Gillian was there because Nucky's pivotal moment in his life was choosing to step on her to get what he wanted... which is what happens during the climax on the boardwalk during the flashbacks. The title of the Sheriff was dangled before him and he had to choose to do something not-so-nice. Young Gillian told Nucky what his wife couldn't say to him... that Nucky 'wanted to be a good person but didn't know how to do it,' or something to that effect. Tommy returning to plug Nucky was perfect revenge - that maybe even Tommy wasn't fully aware of. Before he offs Nuck he tells him that his mema (Gillian) would speak of Nucky and he wasn't sure whether it was love or hate. That ambiguity stuck with him his whole life to the point that he came to know Nucky by working for him, intentionally keeping his identity secret to avoid any nepotism. I don't think there is any way Tommy could know the dark circumstances that his father, Jimmy was conceived under. Would he even know that Nucky killed his dad? The Commodore commands Nucky to make his choice: are you a good person or not? I think absolutely Gillian needed to be in this episode/season. Nucky's luxurious existence was paid for with Gillian's innocence and virginity... she gave birth to Jimmy as a child and it forever warped her life. We know understand the deep loathing nearly all the characters had for The Commodore at the beginning and I'm looking so forward to the rewatch of this show. :thumbsup
I'm aware of that. I meant that physically, she didn't need to be seen, at least in the present-day storyline. Her story was far more effective in the flashbacks at that point. And they were brilliant. Let me clarify. I'm not saying, remove the character. Gretchen Mol was most effective as the character up to the season 3 finale. But this season, I felt they focused on her a bit much while in the sanitarium, and she didn't really have much to do. I think that showing her only a few times, in a more focused manner would have helped. As older Gillian was fading away in terms of plot importance, young Gillian was rising to take her place. I think in terms of storytelling, that's fitting. I think that maybe the scene in the second-to-last episode would have even been more powerful if we saw older Gillian writing that letter, with younger Gillian narrating it. I would have liked to have seen younger Gillian more than older Gillian.