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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old July 1 2015, 03:57 PM   #1831
Brendan Moody
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

I think you're overestimating the potential usefulness of the inserts for stock footage: an awful lot of them would have been story- or character-specific material that would be hard to fit into future Doctor Who stories, let alone more typical BBC output. Bits and pieces of them might have had some utility, and that may be why some of them survived as long as they did, but on the whole they're not something that would have been seen as having separate value.

The BBC did value film somewhat more highly than videotape, insofar as the only official audiovisual archive they had at the time was the BBC Film Library, which was intended only for material originally made on film. (Even there, though, things were slipshod in a way that's hard for 21st-century minds to deal with: they ended up keeping film copies of 47 Doctor Who episodes that had originally been made on videotape.) But there was no formal remit to keep inserts, only completed programmes. Nonetheless, some of the surviving inserts do come from the Film Library (again, slipshod), and at one time they may have had more, including possibly material from The Power of the Daleks, The Moonbase, and The Faceless Ones.
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Old July 1 2015, 04:19 PM   #1832
diankra
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Christopher wrote: View Post
Brendan Moody wrote: View Post
A few of the inserts did survive piecemeal-- some of the clips from The Daleks' Master Plan, The Abominable Snowmen, and The Space Pirates that appear on the Lost in Time DVD are inserts.
Oh, that's right. I was trying to remember if there had been any, but these slipped my mind.
Additionally, some material did survive in the film library, but was destroyed during clearouts in the early 1970s as they only felt it worth keeping full programmes (so far as fiction was concerned. There were definitely several partial telerecordings for The Celestial Toymaker (which seem like to have been the episode endings, for use in recaps, but nobody's quite sure as they don't exist, and the quoted film lengths make no sense - - unless you assume a decimal point's been omitted, in which case they do for a few minutes length).
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Old July 1 2015, 04:39 PM   #1833
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

Brendan Moody wrote: View Post
I think you're overestimating the potential usefulness of the inserts for stock footage: an awful lot of them would have been story- or character-specific material that would be hard to fit into future Doctor Who stories, let alone more typical BBC output.
Well, of course, but I'm not saying all of it would be saved for that reason alone, just that it's one consideration, a possible example of a reason for saving material. There could be other reasons as well. (And story-specific material might be reusable if the show did a sequel, for instance.)



Nonetheless, some of the surviving inserts do come from the Film Library (again, slipshod), and at one time they may have had more, including possibly material from The Power of the Daleks, The Moonbase, and The Faceless Ones.
Then it's all the more of a shame that none of that survived.



diankra wrote: View Post
Additionally, some material did survive in the film library, but was destroyed during clearouts in the early 1970s as they only felt it worth keeping full programmes (so far as fiction was concerned. There were definitely several partial telerecordings for The Celestial Toymaker (which seem like to have been the episode endings, for use in recaps, but nobody's quite sure as they don't exist, and the quoted film lengths make no sense - - unless you assume a decimal point's been omitted, in which case they do for a few minutes length).
So ultimately it comes down to the same culprit -- the decision to do those "clearouts." I guess I hadn't realized just how sweeping an act of destruction it was.
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Old July 1 2015, 05:18 PM   #1834
diankra
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Re: Wiped Episode Discoveries

The really irritating bit is that two missing episodes which were transmitted from 35mm film telerecordings seem to have junked in the late 60s, which was definitely against film library policy (Wheel in Space 5 and Power of the Daleks 5... I think. They also destroyed a few which have since been recovered as 16mm recordings at the same time - Daleks 4 and Crusade 1 from memory, probably one more).

Edit: to be more exact on checking -
Transmitted from 35mm telerecordings which have been retained: Dalek Invasion of Earth 5, Wheel in Space 6, Dominators 3, Mind Robber 1, Krotons 1, Seeds of Death 5 and Space Pirates 2.
Transmitted from 35mm telerecordings which have been junked, but since recovered on 16mm: the Daleks 4, Planet of Giants 3.
Transmitted from 35mm but now missing: Power of the Daleks 6 and Wheel in Space 5.

16mm film prints known from records to have been at the film library in the late 1960s, but lost by 1978: Crusade 1 (copy recovered from New Zealand in 1999), Dalek Masterplan 4 (as often discussed) and Ice Warriors 3. (It is of course possible that other orphan prints did get sent to the library and then junked without any trace in surviving records).
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