Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by ZapBrannigan, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Work for free? Some might volunteer their efforts for a charity, but when they work, they're still being paid aren't they?

    Again, are these people you speak of working at employment with no compensation?

    Not hobbies, not volunteering, actual jobs.

    Okay, I just now responded. Your turn.

    If it was society that was providing his food in the first place, maybe they would be cut back to good basic (really basic) nutritious food and clean water only. If they wish more than that, they can obtain employment somewhere.

    If it's his house? Not simply for not working, although in time he might lose it, mortgage and taxes.

    On the other hand, if the house was being provided to him in exchange for the work he is now no longer performing, then a bed down at the local shelter can be allocated to him until he reacquires another job.

    A minimum social safety net is reasonable, but it should never be so comfortable that people would desire to remain on it.

    :)
     
  2. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    At a charity?

    No.

    Internships.
     
  3. Third Nacelle

    Third Nacelle Captain Captain

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    Just looking across this thread it's quite clear to me that a number of people would work for nothing, just to better themselves.

    It also seems a large number of people would not work at all without compensation, and while that would be a big problem here in 2013, with the level of automation the Federation seems to have in the 23rd/24th centuries, those people probably would not be needed to work in that era.

    So why is everyone so concerned with convincing these people to work?
     
  4. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You stopped before the last part, which is inevitable in a "progressive" society. It has been proposed before. It has been done before. It will be done again unless we are aware of it and prevent it. I see the attitude here in these fora, just in discussion about a freaking tv/movie franchise. Read what people post, and tell me it isn't so.

    Unpaid internships are volunteer work programs. People work for no pay in order to gain experience in their desired field so they may enter that field, for pay, with the gained experience.

    Recently there have been lawsuits filed by people who have gained experience through unpaid internships who now want to be compensated for that work.

    These people apparently place no value on the time spent learning how to work in their field. This will eventually kill the internship opportunities available, since companies won't want to be exposed to possible litigation.

    But back to the topic ...
     
  5. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So what would qualify as an unpaid job to you?

    And the aforementioned people who violate the contract don't invalidate it.
     
  6. yousirname

    yousirname Commander Red Shirt

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    Just to say, many people who work for charities are paid for the work they do (I am, for example).
     
  7. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    er, you do realize that there are millions of people that don't work AT THIS VERY MOMENT who get support through welfare, right?

    So WHY, in a post-scarcity future, where there's LESS NEED for work, would there be pressure to "get rid of those not contributing?" That makes no sense. I suspect that those who voluntarily chose not to work would be greeted with shrugs, since everyone would have enough resources to go around.


    As to the "who does the crappy jobs?" argument, it's an easily taken care of one. Either technology would eliminate the need for those jobs, or they'd be rotated on a fair and democratic basis.
     
  8. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There would be a roster on the fridge.

    I'd just get me an EMH Mark 1 and make him do it.
     
  9. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You'd have to ask Mr. Shaw and his contemporaries. He asked, paraphrasing, "if your life is not contributing to society, what good is it to you?"

    Look it up. Progressivism isn't the cure-all it's touted to be.
     
  10. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    what do Shaw's beliefs have to do with this thread? Why would I bother trying to defend them?:confused:
     
  11. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To offer a new subject: I dislike Roddenberry's feelings on religion disappearing in the future.

    I also felt his view point on humanity no longer grieving and being "so perfect they're not human" was ludicrous.
     
  12. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No longer grieving? Where was that bit?
     
  13. Belz...

    Belz... Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What kind of advancement are we talking about, if there's no money involved ? Certainly not work conditions, because that can be solved by not working.

    Aren't internships usually done prior to actual paid work ?

    Again, yes, SOME people do volunteer work or do stuff that doesn't get paid. It doesn't follow that they would do that 40 hours a week for 40 years. I think the number of people who would do that represent less than 2% of the population, in which case you have a problem, economically speaking.

    Be careful not to confuse what people claim they would do, and what they will actually do in the same situation.

    I don't. I feel religion is doomed, but not before a long time.
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    TNG "The Bonding"
     
  15. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I apologize to everyone still involved but it's not so much I don't have discussion regarding the money issue left it's just the conversation no longer holds much interest. I'll comment I do think some people have some points but I don't think anyone really knows what a society where everyone's needs is taken care of.
     
  16. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The closest thing to that in the western world, where everything is free, housing is free, food is free, clothing is free, you do little or no work, you aren't paid directly, and you're just all around taken care of ...

    ... is children.

    :)
     
  17. Jonas Grumby

    Jonas Grumby Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've heard (haven't watched much DS9, sorry) that Bajoran spirituality was depicted in a mostly positive light on Deep Space Nine. If that's true, I wonder what Roddenberry's reaction would have been to that.
    Not to mention would make for piss-poor dramatic TV.
     
  18. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ron Moore has hinted on more than one occasion, DS9 was revenge on the entire Trek franchise.

    Albeit not as much as BSG.
     
  19. Jonas Grumby

    Jonas Grumby Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Now I'm thinking maybe I should watch Deep Space Nine. :D ;)
     
  20. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh yeah, they don't even hide it.

    * Quark and the Ferengi constantly mock the fact the humans don't use money but need it whenever OTHER cultures come up who do.

    (One episode has them repeat Picards "we no longer need money, we improve ourselves" speech sarcastically.)

    * Religion is an important part of people's lives and attempts to suppress (or "educate" those who believe in it) it is diminishing yourself as well as the people who believe it.

    * Dismissing deities in a world with Sufficiently Advanced Aliens is stupid since the two might as well be interchangeable.

    * The Federation's self-described utopianism actually creeps other races out, leading them to believe they'll suck up other races' cultures and replace them with a meaningless family friendly Disneyland version.

    (They call it "Federation root beer" -- look it up on Youtube)

    * The ends sometimes DO justify the means.

    * There's a group which does the Federation's dirty work so everyone else can feel safe and secure.

    * Sometimes war is inevitable and the other side isn't capable of being reasoned with.

    * People would use holodecks for sex--all the time.

    * Infinite Diversity and Utopianism are incompatible--you have to accept the good with the bad in tolerance.

    * And my favorite: If you were a 20th century human you'd probably prefer living with the Bajorans or Klingons.

    It's very very idealistic but the series is one long deconstruction of everything Roddenberry's vision implied.