Teamwork

JustKate · November 2 2009, 03:37 PM

Thor Damar and I participated in the October challenge, which asked participants to produce a piece of fanfiction in collaboration with another person.

It was really fun - really fun. But it was hard, too. Figuring out a format, deciding on our characters, deciding who was going to write what, working through the plot's background - all that was tremendous fun. Doing all that when the two people involved live in Indiana, USA, and London, UK, respectively - that was the main challenge. Decisions that would have taken maybe a couple hours over a beer or two took a lot longer via PMs and emails.

As I mentioned to Thor, it reminded me of those chess games via "clacks" between Lord Vetinari and Lady Margolotta in the Disc World books.

So I'm wondering if anybody else would care to talk about their efforts in collaboration. What worked? What didn't? What would you do differently? What would you do exactly the same?

Thor Damar · November 2 2009, 08:50 PM

I would not have changed a thing (except for the ability to communicate faster, over 'a beer or two' of course

)

It was an enjoyable mix of different styles which helped to strengthen the writing and coming up with the ideas was certainly fun!

I didn't find any problems with collaborating with my partner, did you JustKate?

JustKate · November 2 2009, 08:59 PM

No, except that he was a real taskmaster when it came to deadlines...

Not really. He was sweetheart, that Thor guy.

Honestly, the biggest problem, aside from the impossibility of settling this all in person "over a beer or two," was the other deadlines going on in my life at the time. People kept expecting me to work and stuff - so unreasonable.

The time difference between Indiana and London was a little tricksy as well, but nothing compared communication and RL time conflicts.

Count Zero · November 2 2009, 09:02 PM

DiaboliKate wrote:

It was really fun - really fun. But it was hard, too. Figuring out a format, deciding on our characters, deciding who was going to write what, working through the plot's background - all that was tremendous fun.

That was my impression, too. I tremendously enjoyed bouncing the different plot ideas around with my writing partner. I'd never arrived at a plot like ours on my own (creating a complex plot is one of my weaknesses, I think).
That was actually pretty good and I'd gladly do it again. Also with someone else, too.

Mistral · November 2 2009, 09:40 PM

As posted in vote thread-Kaz and I had a few roadblocks. I enjoyed what we did get done and would like to finish, time permitting. We sort of chatted about the next step and then one of us would post something, taking turns going back and forth. It was coming along nicely, if slowly.

Count Zero · November 2 2009, 09:50 PM

Well, I hope you get your story finished eventually.

Kaziarl · November 2 2009, 09:52 PM

Yeah, the roadblocks were on my side of the literary highway in this case, and for that Mistral I do apologize. Still, I think what we did get was fun to work on. And as you said, I would like a chance to finish it as well.

It was certainly, in every sense of the word, a challenge. I've seen many collaborative stories in various different locations that seemed like someone likely took something like Lord of the Rings, and Dune, and shoved them together with little thought. Weaving together thoughts and ideas into a story, from two different people is tricky to say the least. But at the same time it was enjoyable.

PSGarak · November 2 2009, 11:00 PM

Working with Nerys Ghemor was a total pleasure. We seem to have similar schedules, so that worked in our favor. I have, however, written collaborative fiction with someone in Sweden before, and I have to say that was a lot more challenging due to the time zone differences. That didn't go as quickly, and there were occasionally language issues, but we hammered those out. Nerys and I handled it all via PM except the final editing which we handled via e-mail. No phone calls or meetings.

At the beginning of our effort, she told me what couldn't happen in her universe to prevent any sort of conflicts with previously written material or future plans she had for her characters, and I decided I didn't want to mess with the continuity of any Trek novels I had read that featured Garak. I kicked the piece off. From that point, I'd almost compare it to text based RP. A good portion of the story, easily the first third, was pretty much free form.

Toward the middle, we started doing some loose outlining to make sure we stayed within the word limit. We discussed the most likely interactions between Garak and her AU Ziyal and decided that it would be more plausible that their interactions would be more covert than overt, body language and the like. Direct conversation would be too uncomfortable for him, and she would find some of his mannerisms confusing and off putting.

The last third was once again more free form than heavily planned. Having written with several people in my life over the years, overall, I'd say this was one of the easiest writing partnerships I've ever had. I'd love the chance to write something else with her and even to partner with some other writers here. I thoroughly enjoy collaborative writing. As Count Zero said about the story written with _r_, two people are often able to come up with something even more complex and interesting than any one person alone. You can each compensate for each others' weaknesses (since all of us have at least one or two things we struggle with in writing or just plain don't like to do) and play to several strengths.

JustKate · November 3 2009, 04:11 PM

How did the various pairs find each other, so to speak? In some cases (e.g., PSGarak/Nerys Ghemor), it was a deliberate choice - picking someone you know pretty well and whose writing style you're familiar with. But at least some of the pairs seemed pretty spontaneous. Was/is this the case? How did the partnership come about?

Maybe, instead of simply peppering y'all with questions, I should tell you how Thor and I ended up partners. In our case, Thor asked me - I don't spend much time in the fanfic forum, so if he hadn't, I might not have known about the challenge until the dang thing was done, and even then it might not have been until one of my Cardassian buddies mentioned a particular story that I might enjoy. But how did the rest of you manage it?

Count Zero · November 3 2009, 06:29 PM

At first, I intended sitting this one out, since I'm having a lot of other stuff on my mind at the moment and I didn't feel like just approaching someone (and I feel awkward discussing my fan fic ideas). But then _r_ was looking for a partner in the challenge thread and suggested something set in my favourite time period of the Trekverse, so I took him up on it.

Nerys Ghemor · November 3 2009, 07:05 PM

As PSGarak said, I felt like our writing partnership flowed very naturally. This was something that was very important to me, because I think a rancorous writing relationship would've ended up stopping up the creative flow--so that's why I was very deliberate in choosing who to write with. I felt like our styles were going to flow, and some of our aims in writing...and sure enough, it worked.

In some ways, I almost felt like the characters themselves knew what to do--because that's more what our story was like: it was about the characters and how they were going to interact, how they were going to feel. Like PSGarak said, it felt a lot like an RP (even though I don't RP). Maybe there wasn't enough action or intrigue for some people, but I have to tell you, it was VERY deeply involving to me as a writer--an opportunity to almost "live" the characters, not knowing what sort of response they'd get. It was about the little moments. Even small things, like finally being able to write a scene into a story where AU Dukat could name his deceased children aloud...very powerful. Or when Garak named himself to AU Dukat as "Elim"...it was amazing to be a part of that.

Oh, and one thing that was a really strange contrast to me, that I kept noticing, was that Garak was so closed and fearful of his emotions--and here was someone who looked like the avatar of the most out-of-touch individual you could imagine, who didn't hide behind a psychological bunker.

Kaziarl · November 3 2009, 07:33 PM

I approached Mistral initially, he had always struck me as one of the better authors here. Mistral was very open to ideas, and early on we settled on a page of one of my characters past. I had also indicated I wanted to do something with a Halloween theme, and we went with it.

Without giving away too much, since the story is not yet complete, what we had I think showed promise. Hopefully we can finish it once my connectivity, and his families health improves.

JustKate · November 3 2009, 07:37 PM

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

Maybe there wasn't enough action or intrigue for some people, but I have to tell you, it was VERY deeply involving to me as a writer--an opportunity to almost "live" the characters, not knowing what sort of response they'd get.

Oh, I thought there was lots of "action"...it just depends on your definition of action.

I also noticed during Thor's and my project that some of the writing was...really involving. Every now and then, I didn't seem to know what a character was going to say until he said it, which was really cool. And unexpected.

Edit: Which is kind of funny, now that I think about it some more. One of the ways I earn my living is writing news and feature articles, and of course I conduct a lot of interviews (though not so far with anybody as cool as Spock, of course). But anyway, I've done zillions of interviews, and yet...and yet...this almost felt like an actual interview, in that there were times that I'd write Macet's question without knowing how Spock was going to answer it.

Nerys Ghemor · November 3 2009, 08:01 PM

Really neat feeling, isn't it?

JustKate · November 3 2009, 08:46 PM

^ Yes...

...But a bit disconcerting as well.

Nerys Ghemor · November 3 2009, 11:36 PM

Oh, it can be. What's even more fun is when your characters stick with you as you go about your normal tasks, and decide to give you a commentary.

Or when you're trying to do a simple avatar contest and your character does a freak-out in your head about the avatar in question because it's his evil twin doing the exact evil thing that was done to HIM. (Not to belittle him, of course. He was perfectly justified!)

PSGarak · November 4 2009, 12:29 AM

I have to say that the part where Garak offered to do something for them took me by surprise. It wasn't something I had planned or that I gave a lot of thought to. It just sort of spontaneously arose from the situation. I also think it's very important to note that this time period for Garak was one of tremendous change and loss, so he was opening in ways he never had before. I had the impression that the simple kindness and hospitality of these "strangers" who were disconcertingly familiar allowed a reaching out in kind, something he would never have been able or willing to do before post-war Cardassia broke him open. For me at least, it was a touching experience to have that spontaneously arise and be reciprocated in such a way.

Nerys Ghemor · November 4 2009, 03:46 AM

I was really stunned by that as well...I was NOT expecting it at all. I'd thought the "creepy factor" of Dukat's voice and appearance would've been too much. (Not to mention how he felt about seeing Ziyal Dukat.)

And then when he offered to stitch Ziyal's name onto the cloth where his murdered children's names were--I was just stunned. The reason AU Dukat had brought him that particular item was because he was afraid it would be inappropriate to ask Garak's help on any of Ziyal's clothes or belongings (because of the resemblance to the one Garak loved--who, of course, he did not know was Tora Ziyal).

PSGarak · November 4 2009, 05:40 AM

I struggled with that particular offer of stitching the name. I'm glad I let Garak have his way, so to speak. That entire part of the story took me by surprise in a delightful way. That's another reason I love collaborating. When it's your own writing, you never get completely taken aback. It all comes from you, so on some level there's always some awareness of where something is going or how it will happen. In a collaboration, at least when the writers trust each other, there are genuine surprises that often take things in exciting directions you may never have gone on your own.

Just Kate, your and Thor Damar's story had such amazing scope for the word limit and conveyed a great deal of what I like to call "painting around the edges". There was much more implied than was said, and I loved that. I found the interview with Spock dead on to Spock's voice and the illusion that there were all these different documents and interviews out there really compelling.

Nerys Ghemor · November 4 2009, 07:17 AM

I did know there was an outside chance of Garak making that sort of offer, but to be completely honest, I did not think it very likely at all that he would take that leap. After all, he could've worked the logic out as to say that was AU Dukat's memorial to the dead, not to the living. And I did actually worry about offering it in case Garak DID feel like that was something he wanted to do.

But once the offer came, I KNEW that I would have to accept it not just on some other item, but on the same cloth--after all, I know how AU Dukat feels about his daughter. And if there's one thing he cannot do, that's cut her out from anything that belongs to the family. He's taught Ziyal that his wife and other children are basically the Oralian version of guardian angels to her...so anything less than totally including her would be unacceptable to him.