A bartender.............on a warship!

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by E-DUB, Dec 1, 2013.

  1. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    My pet theory is that in the 19th century, Guinan still met the Picard from the "normal" timeline...from her perspective, that was a valid alternate future...the moment in time when the timeline was altered was well over 400 years away. She knew that there was something wrong with the YE timeline because it didn't match her own past dealings with Picard (which may have also included a second meeting with the "normal" Picard 100 years previously in the Nexus, from her perspective--she said she was an "echo", but if time has no meaning in the Nexus, then there's no reason Picard and Guinan's paths couldn't have actually intersected there).
     
  2. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    I'm not arguing that Troi had the professional training. I'm just saying that from what we saw on-screen, I'd personally trust Guinan more then Troi for certain issues.

    If it were something of an ongoing issue that would possibly require additional kinds of therapy (ie. the way some people suffering from depression today receive both counseling and antidepressants or some other drug therapy), of course I'd go to Troi.

    As for saying Guinan is "just" a bartender (I know, you didn't say that in those exact words, but it's what your sentiment appears to be - feel free to correct me if I've misunderstood)... she may be a bartender now but she's lived an incredibly long life and had so many other experiences. Guinan never struck me as the sort of character that would have such a narrow range of interests that she wouldn't want to take advantage of whatever opportunities came her way for learning and life experience.
     
  3. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I do like the theory that Guinan still met Picard in the 19th century in YE timeline. I'm adopting that as my theory too.
     
  4. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I liked the fact that Guinan had such key roles in the season finales/premieres of BOBW, Redemption and Time's Arrow. It's a shame she only made two appearances (aside from the movies) after Time's Arrow Part II, and both were brief roles.

    Season 7 was not kind to the guest stars. Barclay's episode sucked, Lwaxana's was a downer (though not being a farce, it was an improvement) Ro had one episode where she was given the heave ho, and Guinan was AWOL.
     
  5. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe Guinan had the instinct something was up and she needed to be on the Enterprise so she offered to serve drinks to help ease the soldiers nerves.
     
  6. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can't speak for navy ships, but certainly all of the army bases I've worked at in my life have had bars. Though they've never been tended by a "bartender" exactly, certainly not a civilian... simply a regular soldier designated that role for the night.
     
  7. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Right. I feel like that the handful of times in which hero captains (particularly Picard) do something decidedly not within the military standards of today, that they'll cite something like the captain's perogative (liberty, privilege, etc). It's a nice way for the writers to circumvent any sort of limitations in the rules of writing the military that we might think of by default. Which is fine really, since Starfleet is a different animal.
     
  8. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hypothesis: In this alternate timeline, Guinan's main function is not bartender nor counselor, but chaplain.
     
  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Guinan has never seemed particularly religious, so I'm doubting that's the case.

    Indeed, a crew that size - over 6,000 troops, according to Tasha - would probably have hundreds of chaplains. In the normal timeline, with a crew of about 1,000, at least a dozen.
     
  10. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Humans in general don't seem particularly religious, I doubt they have any need for a chaplin.
     
  11. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Here, in Quebec and Canada, this kind of function in public establishment is now often secular, so the main thing is now the accompaniment and the spiritual side comes after and it's done outside the formal framework.
     
  12. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There may be crewmembers from religious non-human worlds and cultures serving aboard, though, for all we know, like the Bajorans.

    There might also be humanist chaplains, too. The Netherlands have humanist, athiest chaplains in their military. But an extensive study in theology could translate to being able to provide a confidential, trustworthy service to people who practice different religions, too, from being aware of and knowing how to study religion in general.
     
  13. Mister Spock

    Mister Spock Commander Red Shirt

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    At the very least, there's probably a room set aside somewhere for religious congregations. Or if anyone was to hold a religious ceremony - wedding, christening, funeral etc. - Ten Forward would be the most likely place to hold it. Whilst religion could still be around, hopefully religious intolerance isn't.
     
  14. Captain Kathryn

    Captain Kathryn Commodore Commodore

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    Well I mean, it is Whoopi Goldberg. :D
     
  15. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Looks to me like Guinan was aware of all the good reasons mentioned here not to be on a warship but the only one in this alternate reality to really understand it.

    Theoretically the whole situation could have been Q's little revenge to what Guinan did to him earlier:

    DATA: The Captain and many of the crew are not yet convinced he is truly human.
    GUINAN: Really?
    (So she picks up a fork and stabs it into Q's hand)
    Q: Argh!
    GUINAN: Seems human enough to me.

    Certainly, Q would have had some fun watching Guinan how she desperately tried to explain the situation and get out of it. ;)

    Guinan arrived with other refugees in ST VII so she could have meet Picard somewhere else at Starfleet in the alternate reality.

    But that eventually depends on how you'd like to interpret this little dialogue from BoBW, IMHO:

    GUINAN: ... Did he ever tell you why we're so close?
    RIKER: No.
    GUINAN: Well, then let me just our relationship is beyond friendship, beyond family. And I will let him go.

    I'm not aware that this was ever explained, but it's obvious that Guinan considered the possibility that Picard told Riker but would never do so herself and probably because it could damage Picard's reputation in the eyes of Riker.

    It has since become my pet theory that during their idle time in the cavern in "Time's Arrow" Picard actually told Guinan about the Borg assimilating her people and planet in the 23rd Century, so she would have an advance warning that eventually would bring her back to Earth in ST VII.

    If the alternate reality Picard never travelled back in time to give her that warning, chances are high she would have never escaped the Borg and therefore not been able to serve on any starship at all.

    Bob