Star Trek: Axanar

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by Linnear, Sep 24, 2012.

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  1. Tom Servo

    Tom Servo Commodore Commodore

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    I assume your comments about big Hollywood and backhanded compliments were directed towards me. I know the mods want to move this back towards a discussion on simply Axanar, so it's the last I will comment on this.

    However, let me lay out some facts to you because you are seemingly getting very upset and personal about my comments. I am an artist. I work on shots. I do this because it pays decently, it lets me work in a creative field, and to put it simply, because it's something I'm good at. I have no massive financial stake in it in terms of profits, I'm not a business owner or a producer. Your continued idea that us "Big Hollywood Types" are sitting there hoping for Axanar to fail because somehow it will cut into profits, or show that good stuff can be made inexpensively is simply wrong. It shows your continued lack of knowledge of this industry.

    In fact, it's the exact opposite. We love seeing awesome work coming out of smaller companies and independent films. Hell the company that I work for works on independent films sometimes, including some of the early efforts of the directors who are doing this massive blockbusters. No one looks down upon them. We don't flash a sign that says Hollywood only. However, your statement that I keep offering back handed compliments is simply not true. It was all based around your assertion that the VFX work in this was as good, if not better then the work done in the Abrams films, and to put it simply, it's not.

    I know Tobias posts on here sometimes and if he sees this I want to say by no means am I putting down his work (I know he does mostly 3d, I don't know who is doing the comp work). I think it looks great, and the fact that I know that they do not have a blockbuster budget to work with adds to appreciation of the quality of the work.

    That being said (and I would assume those working on the film would agree, I don't want to put words in their mouth) that making something that looks comparable to a $150 million blockbuster is pretty much impossible. It's all about budget, and what you can get away with for how much you want to spend. I can spend $30,000 on a Volkswagen GTI and say it's a great performance car, which it is, but I'm not going to sit there and say its as great of a car on a technical level as a Ferrari 458 that costs $250,000. It's just not. Yes, I would be paying for name of the Ferrari somewhat, but I'm also paying for the more advanced technologies and materials employed in the building of that Ferrari.

    I'm sure that if some anonymous donor dropped $200 Million in the hands of the Axanar producers that the film wouldn't look the same as it does now. They would probably build more practical sets, they would probably hire one of the big VFX firms with their resources, or give Tobias the money to be able to expand his business and acquire the people and computing horsepower in order to make something that looks like a summer blockbuster. The approach and methodologies to making a film change completely when you have that sort of money backing you.

    Also you don't seem to recognize the resources need to put something on screen that looks like a summer blockbuster, compared to what Axanar is trying to do. I don't know what their final output size is, or what they shot on camera wise, but lets just say its 1920 HD, or even 2k, since that seems to be a standard for most TV shows and smaller films. Most summer movies are being output at 4k, 6k, and hell IMAX film plates are something like 18k in digital resolution (I don't think they render to that size however). The amount of detail that needs to be put into those shots compared to something that is HD requires a massive amount of work, especially if you include the rendering time it takes to kick out those images. Also a lot of tricks that you can try to do to make things look good at a lower resolution simply don't hold up at that kind of scale.

    So stop with your constant repetition that I'm trying to backhandedly compliment the work done on the film, I'm not. The work needed for a small independent production, versus a studio backed blockbuster are two different animals (in both good and bad ways on both sides).

    Also, your argument that since this looks as good as the Star Wars prequels, and those did well in theaters as blockbusters, somehow makes this equivalent work is laughable. I would say most moviegoers and fans now look back at them and say that they over relied on CG. Also they were made 10 years ago. In terms of updates of VFX technology, that was a lifetime ago. There are programs now that you can guy off the shelf that were, at the time, proprietary and you could only dream of getting your hands on. Why do you that there is such a push now by Disney to show that Abrams (the man you love to hate) is shooting the new Star Wars on film, with large practical set pieces and locations, and practical puppets and effects? That's what a massive budget also gives you the ability to do, and coupled with some great work that ILM and others will do, I'm sure it will look fantastic.

    So in short, stop parading around that I'm giving backhanded compliments and dissing their work. Appreciating the work, and the film, in context of how it's made is part of the deal. I think it looks good, and will allow them to tell the story they want to tell, which at it's core, is the basis for all film making.

    P.S. Tobias if you read this and need experienced nuke compositors, I'd love to get a crack at some shots. :cool:
     
  2. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    It should be. But there are people here who think they are better qualified to tell others what Star Trek even is, without anything to back it up, that ruin it for everyone.
     
  3. TerryMcIntosh

    TerryMcIntosh Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks for your feedback and I'm happy to reply. Please forgive if I miss any points, because this was a pretty long one and at my older age the sponge that is the brain can only retain so much at a time, especially after the 92 hour work week that I'm now just coming off of. =P

    Firstly, thank you VERY much for your kind donations. We're extremely grateful! I agree that there's potential for perhaps a wider range of perks, or perhaps even Indiegogo having had the ability to add more than one perk selection -- kind of like a pick what you want and then check out system like a shopping cart -- but, sadly, I don't know of a mainstream fundraising platform with the level of exposure that Kickstarter offered us, or that Indiegogo now offers us, and still have that function. I have heard that we've had many folks donate several times in different transactions to reach that same outcome, but that's a few more hoops than I believe that you're referring to though.

    Regarding the preview clip on Vulcan from the feature -- that's actually not a trailer. It's not even a fundraiser pitch video. It's just a sample that we wanted to show folks that demonstrates some of the quality to come, as well as what can be done for $8,000 on a sunny Saturday in Los Angeles. Since the sets aren't finished yet, we had to choose a scene that we could actually shoot now, and bringing in the wonderful crew, some of the cast, and setting up a green screen in the parking lot of the studio for that clip simply made the most sense.

    A proper trailer for the film -- actually several -- will be forthcoming once we've actually filmed the live action. Tobias is already hard at work on the VFX for the feature, so when we say that production is happening it actually is happening. Also know that we'll be releasing another video very soon -- a proper pitch video as is more traditional in fundraising these days -- and that will also appear on Indiegogo, YouTube, and goodness knows wherever else we can get it out to.

    Your comments were not taken as negative, so don't worry. Feedback is wonderful and we not only appreciate it, but also encourage it, too.

    Thanks again for your support of Axanar!

    Best,

    Terry
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  4. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Admiral

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    This pretty much says it all.
     
  5. TerryMcIntosh

    TerryMcIntosh Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    OK, Tosk. Here's the solution that we're going with for those that are in your situation -- donated at the $75 Blu-ray level in the first feature fundraiser last year, and then donated for the super-ultra boxed set in the current fundraiser -- scraped from Alec's recent post in the Axanar Fan Group on Facebook after the team held a multi-state confab on the situation:

    Any previous donor who donated to the $ 75 level, who buys the Deluxe Blu-ray set, can swap out their First Axanar campaign Blu Ray (for which you donated $ 75) for a special edition Behind the Scenes disk.

    1) The History of the Four Years War - Interviews with writers of FASA's The Four Years War, as well as Stephen Fender's books.
    2) Building the Universe - A series of interviews with Star Trek writers about how they go about expanding the Star Trek universe.
    3) Ares Studio - Building the future - A detailed tour and guide to the creation of Ares studio, and the conversion of this warehouse to 23rd century standards!
    4) Fallout - How Prelude to Axanar has changed Star Trek - A discussion with various Star Trek infuencers on what Prelude to Axanar means to the greater Star Trek community.
    5) The History of "Axanar". A detailed interview with Alec Peters, Richard Hatch and Robert Burnett on the history of "Axanar" starting in 2010.

    So all told, we figure it will be 2 hours of bonus material, that you get instead of the Blu-ray since you are getting the Deluxe Blu-ray in this new campaign.

    Of course, you would be under no obligation to accept this alternative, and could keep the original disc set, but now there's a choice.

    Also, and we won't know for sure until next week once we can get a hold of the company that presses our discs, but we're going to try and upgrade the case for the super-ultra boxed set so that there's a blank disc rung in it, too. This will allow folks that take advantage of this to just be to pop the now super exclusive extra extras disc and have it be a cohesive part of the set.

    Thoughts?
     
  6. gazomg

    gazomg Commander Commodore

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    and god forbid your own opinion does not match theirs, or else you are told "get prospective",or animated gifs are posted with the words bullshit.
     
  7. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    Yup, two different production approaches, two different products.
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Admiral

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    Or... I know this sounds crazy... but here it goes... You could leave your hatred of the Abrams films in the Abrams forum and actually talk about Axanar.

    I know it sounds really crazy. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Tosk

    Tosk Admiral Admiral

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    Just to be clear, I haven't yet donated to the new fundraiser. I donated to Axanar (Kickstarter) and retroactively donated to Prelude. Both were $75 tiers.

    So if I'm understanding right, if I also donate to the Axanar (indiegogo) Blu-ray 5 disc tier, I can swap my original Axanar Blu-ray for an even newer extras disc?

    So I'd end up with: (This isn't me complaining, just trying to straighten it out in my mind.)

    *Prelude to Axanar Blu
    *Axanar 5 disc set (with Prelude again, Axanar, two soundtracks, and an extras disc.)
    *An extra Extras disc. And even (theoretically) a six-disc case for the whole shebang.

    Plus all the lower rewards that go along with these, naturally.

    If I'm getting it right, that seems like a fairly reasonable approach. Not much double-up at all. Please do correct me if I've misunderstood the situation.

    And thank you again, by the way. To everyone on the team.
     
  10. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If what they produce matches the quality of Prelude I'll be more than satisfied. (Of course the actual production will face different challenges from a mockumentary format like Prelude, but it left me pretty confident in the chops of the team. The latest taste likewise.)
     
  11. gazomg

    gazomg Commander Commodore

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    Where in my above post have I mentioned Abrams ???


    oh thats right I did not, I was referring to other members and their attitude towards those who have a different opinion .
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Admiral

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    Here...

     
  13. TerryMcIntosh

    TerryMcIntosh Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    You are correct. The perks for Prelude have already been purchased and most have already gone out, so we're not going to even consider making any changes to that fundraiser -- we've already spent the money and the order is in. The DVD and Blu-rays discs (aside from the tunic level that won't go out until we finish the film) are the only things outstanding for the Prelude fundraiser, and we should have them back from the printers very soon -- they were ordered, and the masters delivered to them, a few weeks ago, so I'm sure that our order is in there somewhere with Jurassic World and Ultron discs that are being pressed. =P

    But, for the rest that you described, yes. Absolutely.
     
  14. Tosk

    Tosk Admiral Admiral

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    No, I figured that. As I mentioned, I wasn't complaining, just sorting things out.

    As far as I'm concerned, it's a good solution and you all came up with it very quickly. I appreciate it, and I'll be donating again very soon. :)
     
  15. nightwind1

    nightwind1 Commodore Commodore

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    Really? A twenty-minute fan film with not much plot to speak of is better than "Regarding Henry", "Alias", "Lost", "Fringe", "Person of Interest", "Cloverfield", "Super 8"...?
     
  16. gazomg

    gazomg Commander Commodore

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    Again where in the post you quoted did I mention abrams ??

    I did not and you are now reduced to digging up posts from days ago to validate your whining.
    you could not make this up.
     
  17. TerryMcIntosh

    TerryMcIntosh Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thank you, Tosk, and thank you also for bringing up this issue. Like I said a few replies back, this was a detail that wasn't thought through on our end originally, but your point made sense and we're glad that a solution was so quickly available to add value in the situation. We don't always get everything right, but we sure try. Thanks again! =)
     
  18. Bixby

    Bixby Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    God, enough of this!!

    If you can't contribute something new AND relevant to this thread, take a breather and stay out!!
     
  19. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    How about some context? Where is the hatred? Where is the bashing? And given the context of this thread I think it's reasonably safe to assume he was most likely referring to Abrams' Trek work.

    What I see is an opinion followed soon after by someone else's presumptions. And then the fur started to get ruffled if not actually fly.

    What was said here was no different than what I and some others have expressed in preferring Star Trek Continues to Abrams' Trek films.

    Is the production standard of STC on par with a multi-million dollar feature? No, of course not, and no one claimed it to be on par let alone superior. But that alone doesn't invalidate why someone might prefer a fan production with a greatly inferior budget to a Hollywood studio backed feature with all manner of resources at their disposal. It's really no different than preferring something like District 9 to Avatar.

    The preference comes from the story, its elements and the execution. The preference comes from an opinion that the fan production impresses as being more faithful to the original source materiel than the studio feature.

    Axanar doesn't have anything (well next to anything) familiar to a mainstream audience. But it does exhibit a distinct and refreshing mindset towards the original source materiel. It's daring to explore aspects of the Trek universe never before seen and doing so with a measure of professionalism and a refreshing lack of overt fannishness.

    As such overall in my opinion Axanar is aiming higher than what was done in the recent Trek features. They appear to be approaching the materiel in similar fashion as the better Star Trek episodes.

    If nothing else I find that quite impressive.
     
  20. gazomg

    gazomg Commander Commodore

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    I will make this easier for you so you might eventually grasp it.
    Are you sitting down ?
    I am looking forward to Axanar, the movie, I liked the prequel ...I loved it, and expect the movie to be as good.

    Still with me ?

    It was in my opinion better than anything Abrams has done in trek that I saw.
    I cannot comment on a list of programmes I have not seen, so you will have to make do with my opinion on what I like.

    I do hope that makes it easier for you to comprehend, and I hope I have not hurt your feelings or offended you with me having the audacity of having my own opinion.
     
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