Starting from the beginning--when does ENT get good?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by IntrepidMan, Jul 16, 2015.

  1. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    Archer is a trained pilot and Trip is a trained engineer (what about the diplomatic skills of Scotty, O'Brien or B'Elanna?). They have not gone through a holistic Starfleet Academy education, had any diplomacy courses ... and above all nothing on how to deal with aliens because, guess what, humankind has no experience with aliens except the Vulcans.
    They have no textbooks to study, they have to write the textbooks. As you are criticizing the first season you seem to skipped over the episodes that deal with what will later be called the Prime Directive.

    So I think that this character criticism misfires as it is oblivious to the actual lessons these inexperiences people learn on their journeys. Last time I checked this is what Trek is partly about.
     
  2. Phantom

    Phantom Captain

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    Well, first, you're wrong about them having no experience with aliens. It's mentioned in S4 that there are numerous alien species that live and work on Earth. So much so that there is an anti-alien group that wants to kick them out.

    But even before that, we have programs like the Medical Exchange, which brought Phlox to Earth. So they're there, even if we don't see them.

    If you want to say that humans had no experience with aliens outside of Earth, where humans have "home court advantage, that's more fair to say. Though not absolute, as we have the freighter crews that run the cargo spacelanes and have more experience than most.

    The less said about the development of the Prime Directive the better. Most of that came from the execrable "Dear Doctor" and Phlox' phony "dillema".
     
  3. Long Syntax

    Long Syntax Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ST: ENT, like all series before it, has much of its storylines based in character development and growth.

    The friendship of Spock and Kirk - Spock's sometimes begrudging acceptance of his human half. Data's quest for his humanity - Picard's personal introspection. Sisko's personal spiritual journey - Odo's search for his roots. The Maquis' transformation from renegades to trusted colleagues - Paris's struggle to overcome his dishonorable discharge from Starfleet. In the case of Archer, his growth from only representing and preserving his father's legacy to the acceptance of his place in history and representing all of humanity during its first steps into the galaxy.

    Archer's initial impulses to blame the Vulcan's for holding back his father's warp engine project are somewhat childish, but this reflects humanity to some extent. Archer was chosen to be the first NX captain not only because of piloting skill, but because of his passion rooted in his father's accomplishments and his drive to see his father's dreams come true.

    Transformation - from what we were to what we will become is at the root of all ST.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Actually it came from the Vulcans. It was established in ENT (and before that in First Contact, really) that the Vulcans had a policy to avoid contact with pre-warp cultures long before Starfleet existed. For the most part, when Archer chose to avoid interference over the course of the series, he was following T'Pol's advice.
     
  5. eyeresist

    eyeresist Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Dear Doctor is actually quite a good episode, except for that horrible resolution.
     
  6. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    In my mind it is one of the best ones of the show. The slow development of what was later called the Prime Directive was one of the best elements of the show and the fact that so many fans still have an issue with a counterintutive ethical rule shows how sublime it is.
    I also appreciate that the characters seriously mess up in the show. There is no superhero Kirk who can talk computers to death or polymath Picard, there are only folks who excel in their specific discipline but apart from that are fairly ordinary. Of course this is not per se an asset, many fans miss the slightly theatrical element of Trek which they got with above-average, literary characters like Kirk and Picard.
     
  7. Mutai Sho-Rin

    Mutai Sho-Rin Crusty Old Bastard Moderator

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    For my money, Enterprise got "good" from the very start. Aspects of the show criticized so often like Archer's uncertainties and Phlox' quirks made the show entertaining. The evolution of the Human / Vulcan / Andorian relationships intrigued me throughout, especially as reflected in Archer / T'Pol. Enterprise remains my second favorite Trek series, just a hair behind TNG and might have taken over the top spot had it continued,
     
  8. SPCTRE

    SPCTRE Badass Admiral

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    I'll let you in on a little secret, OP. It doesn't.

    It's good from the beginning.
     
  9. HopefulRomantic

    HopefulRomantic Mom's little girl Moderator

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    These. :)

    I'm one of the happy little band who loves Archer - his foibles, his screwups, his stumbling his way to maturity and greatness. I think he was doing the best he could within the bounds of his awareness, and his horizons were widened as he went along - especially by the war. He was the first of his kind, and as was said upthread, he was the one to write the first textbook on how to be a starship captain. He learned the hard way, but he learned. To watch his eager idealism in the beginning, then see his disillusionment, his moral struggles during the war, and finally his emergence in Season 4 as a better captain and budding diplomat, was just marvelous for me. I love that he was Kirk's hero and role model, but he was just a man, imperfect, but a true trailblazer.

    I'm also right in the front row to protest how inconsistently the character was written. The writers didn't take good enough care of him, and considering he was the captain, that's a shame. But when I set aside the dopey character inconsistencies and focused on Archer's strengths - his humanity and kindness, courage and selflessness, his unassuming heroism, and especially his ability to learn from his mistakes, I just fell in love with him.

    I really appreciated how Archer and T'Pol were used as a microcosm for the humans and Vulcans learning to put up with each other and finally unite as solid, trusting allies. They both had huge flaws in the pilot, and we watched them grow, go from open dislike to wariness to trust to deep friendship, and I loved that. I loved how Archer recognized T'Pol's worth and fought to keep her on Enterprise from the first season onward. I thought their evolving relationship was one of the best elements of the show.

    I loved the character interaction on this show. Every episode, no matter what I might have thought of the plot, had some great character bits. From Archer and Trip sharing a beer and a polo match to Hoshi teaching Archer how to insult like a Tellarite to Porthos comforting Archer as he looked over the rosters of the victims from "Shockwave," there were wonderful moments. And it had Shran and Soval, what's not to love about them? In any scene they were in? Gold, just gold. I would have loved to see more Archer/Shran and Archer/Soval in the 3 seasons we didn't get.

    The show even had Trip and T'Pol as a microcosm for human/Vulcan relationships, which could have been a precursor for Sarek and Amanda. Sure, fits and starts, but overall there was a lot of promise there, good groundwork laid in Season 3, but the whole thing got derailed in Season 4 because of the impending cancellation, and then the stupid "we broke up" nonsense in the final waste-of-an-hour, which was just inexcusable, story-wise. Don't get me started, I already wrote enough fanfic about it, lol. Missed opportunity, sad.

    I watched the first 3 seasons all in one go over a month, before Season 4 started, without yet joining any online communities or being exposed to all the criticism and fanwars and all that. I just sat and watched and loved it, because it was new Star Trek, and it was Bakula, and the production values were terrific, and I wanted to love it, and I really did. I forgave it its flaws and just enjoyed the hell out of it. I could easily have watched it for 3 more seasons. I will always feel cheated that it didn't get to do that.

    TOS will always be my first love, it was my introduction to sci-fi and helped to form my worldview. But Enterprise is the show I have the most passion for.
     
  10. Long Syntax

    Long Syntax Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  11. eyeresist

    eyeresist Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thanks for your enthusiasm, HR! :luvlove:
     
  12. HopefulRomantic

    HopefulRomantic Mom's little girl Moderator

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    A little long-winded (and I held myself back!) but love is like that. :mallory: I haven't gushed about Enterprise in a while, hee hee.
     
  13. Willow

    Willow Captain Captain

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    :techman: Wonderful analysis and perspective. I agree! :cool:
     
  14. Willow

    Willow Captain Captain

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    HopefulRomantic- your last long post summed up how I feel as well.
     
  15. Terok Nor

    Terok Nor Commodore Commodore

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    I'm hoping to get into this very soon. I watched it when it first aired but I didn't like it much and didn't watch every episode. I remember liking Trip, T'Pol and Dr. Phlox but I hated Archer and I barely remember what the rest of the cast looked like let alone acted like. It always came across as a poorly conceived idea that didn't know whether it wanted to be a prequel to TOS or another incarnation of TNG/VOY.

    Needless to say the series finale is burned into my brain for the rest of eternity. Even with me not being a fan of the series I felt sorry for the cast and the fans of Enterprise. Hopefully I'll manage to appreciate the series upon my second viewing.
     
  16. Long Syntax

    Long Syntax Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Good way to approach the next viewing, so I applaud you for keeping an open mind. Remember, there are stinkers from every series - TOS and TNG included - so take what you can from them and move on to the next episode :)

    I also agree with your assessment of TATV (the last episode). Unfortunately one cannot un-see things.

    Let us know how your next experience viewing ST:ENT goes.
     
  17. Terok Nor

    Terok Nor Commodore Commodore

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    I certainly will. Expect me to pop up in this forum from time to time:bolian:
     
  18. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Admiral Admiral

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    Season four.

    The first two seasons were poor with occasional highpoints. I really disliked seaon three and the whole Xindi arc (a lot of people liked it), but after the Nazi season opening for season four it got good. Very good in places.

    Avoid as much as possible of the temporal cold war...
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That was certainly the producers' policy. The whole time-travel aspect was forced on them by the network over their objections, so they dealt with it infrequently in season 1, barely used it in season 2, rebooted it as the Xindi saga in season 3, and then hastily wrapped it up for good at the start of season 4 (even though a time-travel war waged by factions from the future should logically have no clear endpoint).
     
  20. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Admiral Admiral

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    I liked yours...

    :)