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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old July 27 2014, 01:52 PM   #301
austen_pierce
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Re: Orci talks about Star Trek 3

Back to Marcus for a sec, while I wouldn't go so far as to say he was cartoonish, I would have like a bit more backstory than "Winter is coming!" I mean "War is coming!" to help us understand and perhaps sympathize with his motivations. We got that for Nero.
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Old July 27 2014, 05:27 PM   #302
fireproof78
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Re: Orci talks about Star Trek 3

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
martok2112 wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post

Of course its very in-character for Spock.

That scene is the very best of Trek in movies - EVER.

Especially the coat tug.
So, shouldn't it be called "The Spock Maneuver" instead of "The Picard Maneuver"?
Of course it should. :Shakes fist at Berman: Stealing TOS's thunder.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I have no qualms with the WoK death scene itself, but I've always found the set-up somewhat contrived. The way Spock just suddenly leaves the bridge to fix the pipe thing(?) in engineering makes little sense. There is a whole engine room full of people in full radiation suits who could have dealt with it - yet unprotected Spock is the guy to go inside? And he didn't even put on a helmet?
In TWOK the ship is full of trainees. Due for a training run. Not to go into battle. There's no-one else but Scotty there who knows anything and he wasn't answering the comm. From his science station Spock must have realised what had happened. And up to 3 days prior Spock was in charge of the ship and would know the personnel situation.
And I got the impression that Scotty had already tried to fix the Warp Core suited up but the radiation had stopped him. I think that Spock simply didn't have the time to get suited up. They barely had seconds to spare as it was.

As for STID, if Kirk had failed then everyone could have lived - escaping in life-pods. If Sulu hadn't decided for the rest of the crew not to go that way.
'Only' the Enterprise would have been destroyed. So Kirk didn't 'need' to sacrifice himself in STID.
Spock in TWOK did as escaping in lifepods or shuttles wasn't an option.
Kirk would have no way of knowing that lifepods and shuttles would not be shot down by the Vengeance. He made a decision, based upon the information that he had at the moment. It doesn't change the nature of his sacrifice or the impact that it had upon his character arc.
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Old July 27 2014, 05:58 PM   #303
CommishSleer
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Re: Orci talks about Star Trek 3

fireproof78 wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post

As for STID, if Kirk had failed then everyone could have lived - escaping in life-pods. If Sulu hadn't decided for the rest of the crew not to go that way.
'Only' the Enterprise would have been destroyed. So Kirk didn't 'need' to sacrifice himself in STID.
Spock in TWOK did as escaping in lifepods or shuttles wasn't an option.
Kirk would have no way of knowing that lifepods and shuttles would not be shot down by the Vengeance. He made a decision, based upon the information that he had at the moment. It doesn't change the nature of his sacrifice or the impact that it had upon his character arc.
Didn't McCoy tell Kirk that the Vengeance had been disabled?
Anyway Kirk should have contact the bridge before shoving himself in the WarpCore. There might have been other reasons why that might have been a waste of time.

Its actually not a big deal IMO. Just another place where the writing could have been a bit finer.
I means we get some great scenes where Sulu, Spock and Kirk are all very brave and I agree just because it was somewhat unnecessary it doesn't change the nature of Kirk's sacrifice.

If they were being realistic everyone should have abandoned the Enterprise after making certain she would burn up in the atmosphere. People are more important than machines IMO.

If the writing was a little more cleverer then there might have been some valid reason for Kirk's sacrifice like half the crew were trapped in Engineering or something or the lifepods were inaccessible.
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Old July 28 2014, 05:49 AM   #304
fireproof78
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Re: Orci talks about Star Trek 3

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
fireproof78 wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post

As for STID, if Kirk had failed then everyone could have lived - escaping in life-pods. If Sulu hadn't decided for the rest of the crew not to go that way.
'Only' the Enterprise would have been destroyed. So Kirk didn't 'need' to sacrifice himself in STID.
Spock in TWOK did as escaping in lifepods or shuttles wasn't an option.
Kirk would have no way of knowing that lifepods and shuttles would not be shot down by the Vengeance. He made a decision, based upon the information that he had at the moment. It doesn't change the nature of his sacrifice or the impact that it had upon his character arc.
Didn't McCoy tell Kirk that the Vengeance had been disabled?
Anyway Kirk should have contact the bridge before shoving himself in the WarpCore. There might have been other reasons why that might have been a waste of time.

Its actually not a big deal IMO. Just another place where the writing could have been a bit finer.
I means we get some great scenes where Sulu, Spock and Kirk are all very brave and I agree just because it was somewhat unnecessary it doesn't change the nature of Kirk's sacrifice.

If they were being realistic everyone should have abandoned the Enterprise after making certain she would burn up in the atmosphere. People are more important than machines IMO.

If the writing was a little more cleverer then there might have been some valid reason for Kirk's sacrifice like half the crew were trapped in Engineering or something or the lifepods were inaccessible.
I can agree with that point. The writing certainly could have been tighter and given a more substantial reason for Kirk needing to sacrifice himself. But, as it stands, it works very well in the movie because it shows Kirk's growth as a character.

Moving on to Marcus, I think we got plenty of backstory in that he is worried that Starfleet will not win a war with the Klingons. He is concerned, to the point of paranoia (in my opinion) that the Klingons will attack at any minute and that Starfleet is not up to the task.

Personally, I have enjoyed the idea that Starfleet would undergo a massive overhaul because of Nero's attacks, first on the Kelvin and then Vulcan and Earth. The idea that there would be more fear and more of a warlike Starfleet is really exemplified in Marcus. It isn't just that war is coming, it is that war is coming and he must lead in order for Starfleet to win.
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