Should TSFS had David put up a better fight before he is killed?

Saavik may have figured that if she joined the fight and didn't successfully subdue -both- Klingons at that point then it really would turn from a knifefight into a gunfight.

 

Agreed.

Another good point: David acted on impulse, but he was weak; if he suddenly displayed any sort of fighting ability, it would seem like an implausible attempt to say "see? he's just like his father."

Thankfully, he was outmatched, and died for his last-second manning up, so it would inspire the drastic decision from Kirk.

 

This is a good point that is liable to be missed. The scene as depicted shows that the Klingons are about to kill someone, no matter what. David, launching himself forward, basically makes sure it's him, so that Saavik and Spock may still survive.

Bare in mind that mere moments before David was admitting that he screwed up over Genesis anyway, so maybe this was his own way to make ammends.

 

I agree that David Marcus simply wasn't going to "put up a better fight before he was killed." But the fact that he had to die at all seemed kind of forced, to me. It was David that annoyed Kruge with his insistance that the Klingons wouldn't kill them for a faulty batch of Genesis. Kruge's witty rejoiner to direct his henchmen that "I don't care which" prisoner gets killed makes no sense, in this context. It's clearly implied to be an "Honour" killing, by Kruge's order and by the initial selection of Saavik. She was pronounced a "woman" whilst David was declared "a weakling Human" and Spock was just a snot-nosed kid. All of this in light of the fact that Kruge only took prisoners to gain information. By rights, it should've been Spock who got killed off and if David interfered, just knock him to the ground with an effortless shove.

 

Are you suggesting that the Klingon should have chosen Spock and David should have let Spock die?

 

The way the scene was presented in the film was rather vague, but it was the right length and the right result for the character.

I agree David's death a bit of a "because plot" situation. With Kirk apparently desperate to capitulate, Kruge's order was completely gratuitous.

 

The manner of David's death seemed pretty true to me. After all, in TWOK, he ambushed Kirk with a knife, and was quickly dispatched without Kirk really breaking a sweat. He definitely stood no chance against a Klingon soldier.

 

When his gunner blew up Grissom in a spectacular fashion, Kruge zapped his gunner in spectacular fashion, bellowing in Klingonese, "I wanted prisoners!!!". When he finally got a hold of some, if Kruge was going to make some kind of a statement to Kirk about the seriousness of his intentions, leaving who was to die up to his henchmen was not an option. Using in-universe logic, it had to be Spock. As to David "defending" him, that's completely irrelevant. Even Teen-Spock could've kicked his ass. So, let David make a move - so what? - as a wimp, he can't even challenge Klingon honour.

Anyway, we're not meant to care about David, we're only meant to care how Kirk feels about him. That's why we're never allowed to "know" him, except for the fact that he had the brass BALLS to play "god" by employing The Act of Creation™. And in keeping with the rest of the Shakespearian themes of TSFS, this means that David - somehow - MUST die. And by pissing off The Almighty, who else but The Devil would come to claim him? I just question how that was arrived at, in Klingon terms. In Shakespearian terms, of course, it HAD to be. By that reckonning, however, it would've probably been preferrable for the earth to open up and swallow him, instead. But, we needed David's cadaver within easy reach, so Kirk could grieve over it ...

 

Erm...okay then.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Maltz already under the control of the *other* survivors from the Enterprise? They outnumbered him and probably forced him to beam up Kirk and Spock without question.

And even if not: Perhaps Maltz thought *he* could beat Kirk in a fight?

 

Maltz knew his odds of survival were better with Starfleet. After his security debriefing interviews, he had cosmetic surgery, changed his name, and served as an assistant district attorney.

 

He was. There is a bad framed shot just when Kirk enters the bridge that shows either Saavik or the retard pointing a gun at Maltz. Not easy to see.

 

Actually, I am surprised David did as well as he did. He was not raised to be a fighter. He grew up as a scientist. TWOK even implies he has a disdain for the military.

 

No, he was a blank. He couldn't even talk - how would he know Spock-Fu?

 

Been an age since I saw the movie, but I'm of the understanding that Maltz had the other cast members under control over in the corner of the transporter room. Kirk appears on the platform, Maltz looks surprised and then acts like he's reaching for a disruptor pistol or something, Kirk whips his phaser out * and says "Don't", and that's when the regular crew saunters over and disarms a chagrined Maltz.

Why the other guys were standing over in the corner and not bum-rushing Maltz is unknown, but I chalk it up to plot necessities.

* Hey, waitaminute. Didn't Kirk drop his phaser when Kruge beamed down, disruptor pistol at the ready, and ordered them to "Drop all weapons!" And with all of the ground-caving-in and goddamned Michael Bay-like fireballs everywhere, how the eff did Kirk find his phaser? Riddle me THAT, folks.

 

He certainly gave at least one Klingon something else to think about, when he started aging again, later on, screaming like a banshee! Vulcans possess - at least - twice the strength of Humans. Or ... so we are told. I even remember in TOS, Kirk being concerned about "arousing" Spock's "great strength," once. It may have been that "spore" episode where Spock "Gets the Girl." But Teen-Spock did have this odd tendency to stare at David, whilst they were made to sit with Klingons pointing their buffalo rifles at them. He simply could not take his eyes off him and you can see David giving him a reassuring nod, to get him to knock it off, but ... it didn't work. What that was about, I don't know. I guess the kid actor just had it in his head to find any reason at all to keep his face a'pointed at the camera, the whole time ..

 

In my mind there were scenes, thankfully not shown, in which Everything-that-is-not-of-the-Katra Spock had to be spoonfed, and his nappies changed. No wonder Saavik and David looked so glum. That's why David attacked! "I'd rather be dead than have to wipe Spock's butt again."

 

>>SNORT!!!<<

"Lift your robe, when you have to take a piss, next time! LIFT it up, first! Do you understand? Huh? DO YOU?!?!" ...

 

^ I am face-palming at the horror of it, but there's no emoticon for that.

 

I was disappointed, in light of Boston Legal, when I recently rewatched TSFS that we didn't see more interplay between Kirk and Maltz.