If we wanted to argue the ship had TOS style, invisible armaments, though, we could quote historical precedent. No matter how "current" the vessel, in times of conflict she might be fitted with surplus weaponry only, quite possibly decades out of date (as happened in both the World Wars for fairly modern non-warships, liners and trawlers and the like, as well as for certain newbuild escorts). Timo Saloniemi
I'm pretty sure Kirk knew exactly what the Enterprise was capable of, just by his very assertion that he was worried that a lesser vessel such as the Grissom would potentially be a threat to them.
Then why attack the Klingons outright, rather than opt for another tactic? And why is Scotty in turn so apologetic about the ship not living up to Kirk's obvious expectations? It wouldn't be all that logical for Kirk to have a good picture of what the ship was capable of, as Scotty was toiling on it alone when Kirk had other things to do. Basically everything Scotty has or hasn't achieved comes as a surprise to Kirk ("Aye, I'm working on it"). And while Kirk might have had a motivation to discuss combat capabilities with Scotty after their great escape act, it's clear from Scotty's later responses that he did not. Timo Saloniemi
This is true, but remember - the events in FC take place 80 or 90 years after TSFS. It is entirely possible that all Oberths were retrofitted with weapons, citing the Genesis Incident as the reason not to send unarmed ships into ostensibly safe zones of operation. Too much time has passed to be able logically infer that 23rd century starship armaments would be in parity with 24th century configurations.
I don't know about anyone else, but to me that screenshot looks like the Oberth is firing from a dorsal-aft saucer location.
That screencap is so vague that it's hard to tell exactly where the beam is coming from; could be coming from the bridge of the ship.
A still shot like that could even be interpreted as the Borg shooting at the unarmed Oberth... And the Oberths never show up in sufficient detail to actually be positively identified anyway. That is, if we only have a select list of ship classes to choose from, we can say these must be Oberths. But Starfleet isn't limited to what Paramount has in stock, and these could be completely different combatants instead, with mighty five-barrel giga-phaser turrets atop. Timo Saloniemi
The scout is approaching the cube. http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/firstcontacthd/firstcontacthd0199.jpg The scout fires a phase beam at the cube. http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/firstcontacthd/firstcontacthd0200.jpg http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/firstcontacthd/firstcontacthd0201.jpg The scout's phaser beam ends. http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/firstcontacthd/firstcontacthd0202.jpg The scout after firing the shot. http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/firstcontacthd/firstcontacthd0203.jpg My belief on the location of the phaser is based on this sequence of shots.
Yeah I went and had a look at the sequence on YT last night to be sure, didn't get time to log in and reply though. Looks like you were right, about the direction of travel at the least. Still, not sold on the idea of the beam coming fron the central trapezoidal inset though - it looks on those shots like it comes to just to the portside of the inset? Honestly though, I never saw the point of using an Oberth anyway, except maybe to fly it straight at the cube at warp
Because there's a huge difference between an enemy ship that you're unaware of, decloaking right in front of you and immediately starting to fire on you in a surprise attack, and a friendly ship that Kirk is already aware is out there and that he can possibly negotiate with her captain not to fire on them.
As the Federation and the Klingons were negotiating peace, then Kirk's actions, by firing on a ship, would be consider an act of war. This point was raised in the next film. Kirk should have attempted negotiation with the Klingon commander.
Hmh? That explains nothing. Kirk throws himself into a fight with the Klingons despite spotting them well in advance, suggesting he has no fears about the outcome (and the Klingons share his opinion, considering their own position hopeless). Yet when the battle is joined, the Enterprise loses, and Scotty apologizes. Thus, it seems pretty clear that Kirk had no idea that he was the real underdog there, and Scotty kept his possible doubts to himself. Kirk also wonders about either the Grissom or her crew firing at him or his ship. We don't know what he would do if this happened, nor what he would do if the potential adversaries joined forces with him - all we know is that Kirk is sufficiently worried to speak out aloud. Worried of hurting the Grissomites? Worried of failing in his quest because of the Grissom? Worried of dying? We don't see him preparing for battle, suggesting he doesn't think highly of the Grissom armaments. But he doesn't broadcast a message dictating his terms or asking for parley, either. If anything, Kirk was more aware of the Klingon threat and should have negotiated with them when he had the clear upper hand ("You're where you shouldn't be, a dozen starships are on my heels (for reasons you don't need to know), and I can seeeee youuuuu. Now eject your warp core orI'll eject it for you."). The Klingons would be frightened out of their silly vests by Kirk so callously giving up his tactical advantage and thus demonstrating he doesn't even need to resort to such... Timo Saloniemi
He could have, but the Klingon Captain, Commander Kruge had no interesting in negotiating. All he wanted was the Genesis device; And would do anything to get it. Even if it had cost a war between his people and the Federation, he wouldn't care.
The Klingon vessel this deep into Federation space, cloaked, was already an act of war. Having destroyed USS Grissom seals that idea. Kirk firing on them once their intentions to do him harm are clear is not an act of war. Kirk knows Klingon tactics well enough and Romulan tactics with cloaking devices. If the Klingons wanted to talk, they would have approached uncloaked, or decloaked earlier. As it was they decloaked right off the Enterprise's bow and aimed torpedoes for firing, never saying a word. Kirk had been transmitting an open message for USS Grisson since just after he arrived in the system.
There were four incidents which could be construed as acts of war. The Klingon vessel being in Federation territory was not one of them. They were: 1. The capture of the Klingon ship 2. The death of the Klingon crew, both mentioned by Klingon Ambassador 3. The destruction of the Grissom 4. The murder of a Federation citizen by a Klingon crew member, both mentioned by Surak
Additional acts of war: 5: Penetrating deeply into Federation territory with an armed ship while using a cloaking device (concealed weapons and stealth) 6: armed Klingon boarding party beamed over to Enterprise; in essence Kruge's crew invaded a Federation starship of-the-line 7: Kruge and crew beamed down to the surface of Genesis (presumably a new planet considered Federation territory, and a subject of Federation interest) and took Lt. Saavik and Dr. Marcus hostage
Ithekro succinctly explained my point. Kirk knew that the Grissom could potentially disable the Enterprise in her current condition, so he was at least trying to get in contact with Esteban in order to avoid any potential firefight. Conversely, Kirk had no choice but to take evasive maneuvers against the surprise attack from the BoP.
The Klingons.. scared.. because Kirk gave up a tactical advantage?? No. They'd laugh their collective asses off at him, and then blow his to kingdom come.
The Klingon BOP not only fired upon, but destroyed not just a Federation Starship, but a Starfleet vessel as well to top it off. They got what they deserved, and had no diplomatic rights the moment they fired on the Grissom.