I know its sacrilege to consider such a thing in this forum, but some of the ideas for re-doing VOY and ENT are interesting so I thought I'd see what people would liked to have done differently with DS9. For me there are three little things that I'd have changed. Firstly (this applies more to S1 and into S2 than the rest of the series), I'd liked to have seen the Starfleeters more involved with reconstruction and relief efforts on Bajor. Plenty of stories could be done there, looking at fallout from the occupation and how the Starfleet crew look view it and how they, in turn, are viewed. Secondly, I'd liked to have seen more of Melora Pazlar. Make her a recurring character who is onboard as Station Counsellor, maybe even promote her to the main cast as the seasons go by. Thirdly, had Terry Farrell still chosen to leave and Jadzia was killed off, have the new Dax host be male. I can see that being far more interesting with the likes of Worf, Bashir and Quark. He could be a new Conn Officer for the Defiant.
While I am rarely interested in remakes, I like your idea of Starfleeters more involved with reconstruction and relief efforts on Bajor. Hopefully more location shooting! What would I do? Dramatically tone down the Dominion bleh so they don't become the overriding plot of the last few seasons. Keep the magic of the show from earlier series alive.
They could have dispensed with bareil. His character was as boring as they come, even the MU version!
I think the original show could have been improved. The only objection I would have to a remake would be that the story itself was very complete. Nonetheles, I would have done things differently if I had a say in production. First, I would have cast someone to be a recurring political figure for Bajor from the beginning, someone who could have the same stature of Louis Fletcher and Marc Aliamo. Frank Langella's Minister Jaro was awesome, and it could have been brought back had he not been so thoroughly disgraced in the Circle trilogy. Second, I would cast one or two people as recurring Bajoran security officers for Odo's staff. It adds more complexity to stories when we see these men acting independently of Starfleet. Third, fewer Trill episodes, more Dax episodes. Too many of those stories, like "Dax, "Invasive Procedures," and "Equilibrium" focused too much on playing with the complexities of being joined without defining the character itself. As I've written elsewhere, Farrell's acting chops are weak. Nonetheless, many of these episodes don't give her much to do other than react. Rejoined was more successful because it showed Jadzia evaluating her experiences and making decissions. More focus should have been on how she lived rather than what she is. It would also have been nice if the character had an episode on par with Bashir's THe Quickening. Fourth, when Dax dies, Dax dies all the way. There should have been no way of saving the symbiont. After six years of the character as being a contuinity, it should come to a dramatic end. No coming back in the next season as a woman or man (although I would still put forward my Odo idea, which might satisfy everyone). Fifth, the Prophets did not interfere in Sisko's conception. That cheapened the pilot episode. Everything else about Sisko's deification sits ok with me. Instead, there should be other ways that Sisko realizes that the Prophets are manipulating him. Sixth, the character who dies at the end of Sacrfice of Angels should be Rom. His character was developing heroic attributes and showed how much he was willing to sacrifice. Garak's pain over the death of Ziyal is interesting, but we would have gotten more out of seeing Nog and Quark's mourning.
To that effect they should have rewritten Jaro from stem to stern because he sounded like a sleazebag from word one.
If Bareil had died at the end of The Siege, I think it still would have been considered an interesting character. His attraction to Kira was a little weird, true, but there was still someting interesting about him, something mysterious in his motives. After that, his will was gutted. The primary reason why the war dominated the last seasons was that the Dominion War, meant as the overarching fourth season arc, was pushed back because of Worf's introduction. True, but I think Frank Langella has enough range to play a villain whose treachery was toned down. He could be more nationalist than isolationist.
I would like to see a more prominent Starfleet presence in DS9. You have this Cardassian threat, a Dominion threat. For awhile there was a Klingon threat. But with the entire Alpha Quadrant at risk it seemed like it all came down to Sisko's gang hopping on the Defiant or in some cases even a Runabout to save the day, with Starfleet nowhere to be found. Garek the Cardassian tailor/spy was in more high security Starfleet missions than Starfleet. Starfleet should have been all over that wormhole, there should have been a fleet parked at the entrance from season 4 on. Quark's should have been brimming with Starfleet crews on shore leave non-stop.
Hey guys! As of now, I think this Thread has a bit more the feeling of: "which minor things would you like to have changed during DS9's run". So I'm giong to make a BIG leap here: What would I change if I would completely Reboot DS9: 1. More human characters and fewer, but more complex aliens: A big problem I have with the beginning of the series is that it feels completely detached. A majority of the main characters are aliens, where each of them has a special 'schtick'. Some work (Odo, Quark), some not so much (Dax). I think the reason why Spock on TOS and Data and Worf on TNG work, is because they are the only completely alien characters, and thereby get fleshed out really well. On DS9 we had right from the start so many alien characters, it was hard to learn the schticks of each character before getting to know the character itself better. This, of course, should change over the course of the series, where new (and alien) characters get added. But for the beginning: Have just two (and maybe a third minor) weird guy to ease in audiences. 2. Make it a bit more relatable I really like DS9 once I've gotten into it. But it's really hard to get into, because all the characters are either aliens, or have a very complicated backstory. And everything on a location that is totally detached from my reality and experiences. The other serieses and the movies usually took a big effort to show: it's the fututre, but it's our future. So, at least for the beginning, make it a bit more 'humans on the edge of the frontier' and less 'weird alien politics and stuff'. 3. Ditch or completely redo the Bajorans The Bajorans are the worst. They are the constant embodiement of one of TNGs worst aspects: The aliens of the week. They are too weird to be identifiably as humans, but too much 'guys with a bump on the nose' to take them serious as aliens. Also, they have only two characteristics: They were once occupied and they are religous. Woah. What opportunities. So here is the thing: Either ditch them completely and make it the last station in the middle of nowhere. Or let her be around a human colony. (It could be a former colony that seccesed, was occupied, and stuff, so still have a complicated backstory and not be the perfect Star Trek humans, but it would get rid of the 'alien of the week'-look). Or make them completely alien. Like starfish aliens, maybe reptilians, and give them defining characteristics. Maybe even merge the symbiont aspect of the Trills with them. So that they are interesting enough that you want to learn more about them and see them in further episodes. 4. More travelling through the galaxy Since we're talking about redoing DS9 now, there would be a considerable advancement in special effects, make-up and set design. So here is what I want to see: Make the runabouts a little bit bigger. And let our heroes travel with them to the many planets in the neighborhood. Make DS9 a station from where the heroes start and fly back to, but let them travel a bit more! Show us more alien worlds! 5. More msjor alien nations For a stationary show, Deep Space Nine has a remarkebly short list of recurring aliens. Unlike Babylon 5, which had many major different societies, DS9 basically only has the Bajorans and Cardassians, later adding klingons and the Dominion. How about we have four or five different recurring species? Maybe the Cardassians, but add another Empire, equally strong, and other different fractions. Give each of them special characteristics. Have a robot society. Another one of non-corporeal beings. Maybe some 'fish-aliens', who live under water half of their time. A species of hermaphrodites, who don't know how gender works and can make no sense of human (and the other aliens') behaviour. And then: Have them all interact. Show us the capital of one species in a major plot arc. Then move on to the next species. Then have an arc about diplomatic conflicts between two of them. Have the conflict between fueled by their different view on the world, ethics and politics (How would robots react to murder in a society, where everyone can make copies of themselves? How would it affect their interactions with biological beings?) 5. Don't make it World War II in space Seriously. The war against alien opressors has become totally clichéd by this point. EVERY scifi show does it. From every Stargate show, Babylon 5, Andromeda, Space above and beyond, Battlestar Galactica, clone wars, Defiance and every other show ever. Really, I think a big draw to Star Trek (well, at least the other four series) has been always that it doesn't do the WAR IN SPACE stuff. So: either avoid it totally, or do something we have never seen before. This is why I think the conflict with the Borg is much more interesting than the war against other alien nations: The Borg are truly different. How do you cope with something so strange and alien? Can normal diplomacy even work? So if you have to do a war against aliens, make it more like the Bug War from Starship Troopers (the book, not the film), where it is even unclear if the rules of engagement even apply. So, these are my recommendations for redoing DS9. Of course, this would result in a completely new and different series in the end. But I think this is the point, because we already have the current DS9
It's definitely smaller changes I would make to DS9 than Voyager and Enterprise. I find it ridiculous to say characters are less relatable because they are alien. I hope you can't only relate to people who are similar to you. The heavily alien cast are part of what made DS9 great and frankly one of the points of DS9 was that the alien characters are more relatable to 20th century humans than the 24th century humans are. Having the Bajorans be recovering from cultural enslavement is the emotional core of the show, don't change that at all. Like, yeah, recast Bareil. Write Dax more consistently. Have more alien races from the Gamma Quadrant. Make the Dominion a dictatorship version of the Federation instead of just three races. Don't make Dukat Bajoran Satan. Don't make Bashir genetically engineered. Keep the basic story the same.
1. I'd have introduced The Defiant almost immediately, bring the cloaking device on later, or have another ship as a defense ship that ends up getting destroyed and replaced by The Defiant. I never bought into Runabouts as much of a force as they were basically large shuttle crafts with weapons. 2. I agree with more Starfleet presence on the station. It seemed that throughout the series on a station with thousands of people on it that there were only a few dozen Starfleet officers. I never bought that a race that was just released from slavery would be able to operate a station of that size without a bit more help. I know they had a strong, skilled military leader in Kira and an elite Chief Of Security in Odo, but I doubt most Bajorans had a lot of experience as engineers or tactical officers. 3. I think they could have done a couple more Mirror Universe episodes, Evil Kira was bad ass.
The problem is not that they are aliens. The problem is that they are poorly developed aliens. Odo is a masterstroke. Both his character and acting, as well as his 'alienness'. He has a very unique ability, and he has a backstory that is vaguely but not artificially connected to his ability (he doesn't know where he's from). But his whole character isn't driven by his special alien schtick. I can totally relate to him (despite him being an alien and such...) because I can try to imagine how I would feel not knowing where I come from. I can not relate to how it feels turning into a liquid, but because his character is already so well defined I can totally accept that. Likew with Spock, Data and the Doctor. I love Odo and would not change him. Quark works as well, because he is alien enough to be believable, but his character has nothing to do with his species. Apart from that? Well... Jadzia is a disaster. I think they just had too many ideas about different alien cast members, and tried to fit in all of them without having the time for the necessity to flesh them out enough. With the result that both her character AND her alien features weren't fleshed out for most of the first season. I think it would have worked much better if she would have been slowly introduced like Garak: Only appearing when someone has to tell an interesting story about her. With this way there is a lot of time dedicated to flesh her out in her initial appereance, both the character as well as her alien aspect. Introducing her and her special thingy in the pilot as part of an ensemble was the big mistake: The first time she got the spotlight (in 'Dax'), her character was already ruined. And Kira? Well, I love Kira, both her character, her backstory and Nana Visitor. But seriously: Everytime I had to see the pimple on her nose and she talking about 'her people' and what amounts to them, I had to groan. I can accept ONE character with bad alien make-up. Barely. I accepted Ro Laren on TNG because she was a great character, and accepted her bad make-up because she was a guest star and the show was on a budget. But it was the character that convinced me, not the Bajorans. Together with Dax we had two characters on DS9 who were just thinly veiled humans. EDIT: BTW you're right about the Bajoran history. That was the one thing that made the Bajorans work in the end. Still a species of the week. But at least one of the more interesting.
The station having only a handfull Starfleet officers is actually something I very much like. It is a big departure from the other series, and an interesting one. They are just a handfull guys working on the frontier, together with the locals. No big backup army of experienced Starfleet officers and engineers. Just a few people in a place that is deemed secure by Starfleet, but exotic by it's nature. As for the in-show explanations: I think it works good as well. The Bajorans were enslaved and have few professionell manpower, yes. But the space station is one of the most important places for tha Bajoran gouvernement, so they would scrape together enough people to manage it. It also works quite well for the dynamic: We have a lot of Bajoran people in Administration and security (I think enough Bajoran know how to handle a weapon at this point). And I think many Bajorans learned how to fix engineering devices in the underground, so they should have enough 'field-skilled' personal be able to maintain the rustic functions of the space station. What they don't have is specially and professional trained personal: Officers. And this is were Starfleet comes in and sends a few professionals as supervisors. Like in the real world, were still many American and European police and military officers work in Afghanistan and Irak to train local police and military forces and teach them how to maintain their vehicle fleet. They are also in the minority, but in charge (with a voice by the local commanders, like Kira). Much like DS9. EDIT: I pretty much like the runabouts as small but crafty vehicles to travel to new places. I wish they would have used them a bit more like a fleet of small Millenium Falcons and not bigger sized standard shuttles. (Although, to be fair, they looked like shuttles. So another thing I would change when re-doing DS9: Change the look of the runabouts. To something a bit more impressive)
Hi Rahul! Yep, that's quite a leap. Most of the things you want to change are some of the reasons I love DS9! I think the lack of human characters makes it feel more alien, which is part of the intent. I find it relatable even though I'm not an alien. I even find some of the backstories relatable at their hearts. I relate to Odo's loneliness. I relate to Quark's selfishness. I relate to Kira's faith and stubborness. I relate to Rom's hesitant and awkward nature. I relate to Jadzia's desire to keep a sense of independence in her relationship with Worf. I love the Bajorans. I think they could have done more with them. I think they sort of (sadly in my view) dropped the religion for much of the series, until they brought it back at the end to make it a good vs. evil plot which was different (I enjoyed it too though, I know many hated it). I think the fact that Sisko is "of Bajor" makes a connection between the species that's interesting and could be explored beyond DS9. But let's face it, it's hard to get incredibly complex with aliens that are all English speaking (er, I mean via the universal translator, of course) humans with makeup. In that case, just eliminate the station and put them all on a permanent starship. No, that would completely defeat the purpose of DS9 the station. I think they did some venturing out, but I'm glad they didn't do too much. To me they balanced that just right. I think for novels or perhaps another series the Gamma Quadrant seems like an interesting mysterious place to explore (much more interesting than the DQ), but I'm so glad they didn't turn it into another TNG-lite, because as we all know (and as non-Niners are all too delighted to point out), "DS9 is not Star Trek." For the major aliens, I'm glad they kept it to a minimum because they were able to really give them depth - the Bajorans, the Cardiassians, the Dominion (the major aliens within), the Klingons, the Ferengi, and to a lesser extent the Trill. I know, people hated the war. But the war gave us some very interesting character and relationship development. Sure there were some battle scenes, and honestly those weren't my favorite scenes, but the war was just the backdrop and drama that gave the writers the juice they needed to really add some texture to these characters. Yep. Sounds like you want Star Trek. DS9 was unique because it was a very different sort of series that happened to be set in the Star Trek universe. And I liked it.
Hey dub! Nice to hear from you again! Well, you should hear what I would like to change on the other Star Trek shows Quite a few points. I just want to make it clear, I'm not against a big cast of aliens. I love Farscape. That show has ONE human. But what makes Farscape work is that all the aliens are both really weird aliens, but still completely relatable. A lot of Star Trek aliens are neither. Naw, the station setting is fine. And I think the big differences to TNG (compared to Voyager) are what makes this series still so beloved. This is just a personal preference of me, that I watch scifi to see many new aliens. I think Babylon 5 did a great job with that, handling many different alien nations, but still being stationary, returning to important places and following on long arched story lines. Of course I can see why they avoided that at the time to not make the two shows too similar. But since we're talking abour redoing DS9, why not add two other major races to the mix? Hm, haven't yet seen most of the episodes surrounding the war (I'm still in season 2, I'm updating my 'first time' thread as soon as I progress further). All I know about it is what I had seen in episodes in re-runs. And I remember that it quite striked me how much they tried to make WWII-war movies instead of scifi-movies. That view may be skewed, because again, I have only seen a handful of episodes about the war. I think Battlestar Galactica did that fine (well, at least in the first three seasons), showing us how a conflict with beings who have a completely different understanding of life itself would be like. Yeah. I want new Star Trek, dammit. But since I still have the bulk of DS9 ahead of me, I can't really complain (except for the things that look a bit dated now...) Generally i really enjoy that they took a route so different with DS9, but still Star Trek at it's core. All my suggestions are basically in the mindset of: "Okay, DS9 exists already, now what should we do if we wanted to completely re-do the series all over in the present?"
I have to say there is not much I would change with this series. I'd say the two biggest things are do something about terry ferrell (Define her species better, make it more alien, or maybe just make her a recurring role) and the other (and much bigger) thing would be to change the bajorans. It would have been a lot more interesting if they had been a little more genuinely alien to us. I know for both Terry and Nana they wanted to do make up that would complement their looks, not take away from them, but even so they could have at least tried to make them a little less human looking. I really liked Kiras character, but it would have been great if the bajorans had been a little harder to relate to for star fleet at the beginning. Maybe make them a race that flew (would have made for an interesting challenge for the cardassian conquerers), or have their religion be something that dictates virtually their every move.
Hmmm, ways to redo DS9 in order to make it better. Well....1) Put Jadzia into an empty torpedo shaft 2) Jettison her into empty space 3) Instant improvement of the show as a whole. /joking No, I guess the idea would be to get someone who is a better actress than Farrel to play Jadzia and write the character better and more consistent. And especially sort that Trill mess out and clearly and consistently define the relationship between host, symbiont, previous hosts and how a joined Trill would see themselves and not go back and forth on that like they did with Jadzia. Other than that: 1) It's quite clear that Garak was supposed to be gay, so have him be gay. 2) Agree that the replacement for Jadzia (who should die around season 4 or 5 to give the second character enough screen time) should be male as well a different department and different coloration that Jadzia. She and Ezri looked too similar. 3) Bashir needs his creeping for Jadzia in the beginning removed. He can still be attracted to her, just make him less desperate. 4) Focus more on Bajor and expand the Bajoran culture more. Give a sense that things on Bajor are reconstructed, replanted etc. There could be more tensions between different cultures on Bajor and all sorts of interesting stuff. 5) Give the Dominion more, clearly visible subject species and let the Vorta keep their telekinesis, but lose the stupid pompadours. 6) If Worf still gets introduced (and that's a bit if, we had enough Klingon stories on TNG) he doesn't get more prominence and stories than Kira, who remains the second protagonist. 7) I would not have killed Ziyal off, rather I would have made her a character with just as much relevance to the plot as Garak and Quark. 8) Have a recurring, non-villainous character who is a native of the Gamma Quadrant. 9) I would have really liked to see the liberation of Betazed on screen.
Actually, making someone like Garak gay simply because of the way he talks would do more to feed prejudice than anything else. Most gay people are indistinguishable from the straight kind unless they want to advertise their gayness so that even a country bumpkin would understand.
There is one relative biggie that I would change, and its to do with the Klingons. I understand introducing Worf is a way of boosting viewers and adding a new dimension to the show (new relationships, stories, etc), but with him came far too many Klingon episodes. The break down of the alliance and brief war I can live with--it shows the cunning the Dominion have and the heightened state of paranoia the Quadrant is in--but its a lot of the other episodes that are just too much. Either scale them down to one a season, or remove Worf from the main cast.