RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,713
Posts: 5,432,149
Members: 24,835
Currently online: 558
Newest member: SB118_T'Mar


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 4 2014, 04:51 AM   #91
Klaus
Rear Admiral
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Location: Beach condo, Bay of Eldamar
View Klaus's Twitter Profile
Re: What Books Are "Canon"?

...I think he's an interesting character, but making him Spock's half-brother was my objection.
__________________
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
t-shirts!
deviantArt
Klaus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2014, 09:46 AM   #92
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: What Books Are "Canon"?

Klaus wrote: View Post
...I think he's an interesting character, but making him Spock's half-brother was my objection.
Whereas I think Sybok being Spock's half-brother makes a lot of sense. I never liked how Sarek pushed Spock to be Vulcan, it seemed incredibly unbecoming of the man who choose a human wife. But if you factor in a full-blooded older son who was exiled for rejecting the ways of Surak, everything changes. It's Sybok's exile and the fear of losing Spock (and possibly Amanda) similarly which motivated him to push Spock so hard to be Vulcan.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2014, 03:28 PM   #93
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: What Books Are "Canon"?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Klaus wrote: View Post
...I think he's an interesting character, but making him Spock's half-brother was my objection.
Whereas I think Sybok being Spock's half-brother makes a lot of sense. I never liked how Sarek pushed Spock to be Vulcan, it seemed incredibly unbecoming of the man who choose a human wife. But if you factor in a full-blooded older son who was exiled for rejecting the ways of Surak, everything changes. It's Sybok's exile and the fear of losing Spock (and possibly Amanda) similarly which motivated him to push Spock so hard to be Vulcan.
That's an interesting (and plausible) interpretation.

All quibbles notwithstanding, the "canonical" status of ST V has never really been in dispute. It's still cited in all the reference lists and chronologies, packaged with the others, referred to in the novels, etc. It's as "official" as any of the other movies; it's just not one of the good ones.
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2014, 09:28 PM   #94
hbquikcomjamesl
Commander
 
hbquikcomjamesl's Avatar
 
Location: Orange County, CA
Re: What Books Are "Canon"?

ST V served a purpose.
It got people to shut up about how supposedly bad ST:TMP was, and (once the Director's Cut thereof became available) realize just how good it was.

I still remember something Shatner said about ST V at a convention (Creation, at the Disneyland Hotel, as I recall) while it was still in post:
It's a western.
hbquikcomjamesl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4 2014, 11:05 PM   #95
Jarvisimo
Commander
 
Jarvisimo's Avatar
 
Re: What Books Are "Canon"?

Enterprise1701 wrote: View Post
Here's something that's common but has got to be non-canon: lip movements. We've had explicit establishment of the ubiquity of universal translators and non-Federation races who don't speak English. Lip movements for speech that is obviously translated for the audience can't possibly be real.
That is so interesting! I've never thought of that.

In fact, this whole discussion is very interesting.

one book that may be worth considering under the OP's categories, at least with regards to the author's personal involvement in the story, could be A Stitch in Time (as well as its follow-up story)?
__________________
At the high point of our intimacy, we were just 0.01cm from each other. I knew nothing about her. Six hours later, she fell in love with another man.
Jarvisimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 5 2014, 01:21 AM   #96
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: What Books Are "Canon"?

Not just lip movements, but the fact that we only hear one voice from a person speaking through a translator. How does that work? Do people just whisper their words and trust that the translator will pick them up? Does a translator somehow fire targeted sound beams at people's ears that cancel out the actual voice and substitute the real words? It really doesn't make any sense as shown.

Oh yeah, and then there's the translation coming in real time. How does the translator know immediately what to say? Some languages use a different word order in their sentences; a subject that comes at the beginning of a sentence in English could be at the end of the sentence in Japanese, say. So to get a clear, grammatically correct translation into the target language, you'd need to know the whole sentence before you translated it. By all rights, there should be some lag time.

In my Hub stories in Analog, I established that the translators in that universe are implanted between the brain and the larynx, so that you actually say the words in the target language you've selected, even if you don't know that language.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 5 2014, 02:13 AM   #97
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: What Books Are "Canon"?

That's a really cool idea.
__________________
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 5 2014, 02:48 AM   #98
Avro Arrow
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: What Books Are "Canon"?

We know from "Metamorphosis" that the Trek UT actually scans one's brainwave patterns. It basically reads your mind, so it knows what you're going to say before it actually comes out of your mouth!
__________________
"A mind that cannot change is a door that cannot open: both are useless."
- Keith R. A. DeCandido, The Klingon Art of War
Avro Arrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6 2014, 07:41 AM   #99
Destructor
Commodore
 
Destructor's Avatar
 
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Re: What Books Are "Canon"?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Nobody's saying it has to be fictionalized in-universe. The point is simply that the original usage of "canon" did not define it to mean something that had to be embraced as absolute, immutable gospel in even the most trivial details.
I guess I was more interested in the thought experiment of how Trek sometimes looks back at itself rather than trying to say that people were saying Trek actually fictionalized itself in-universe.
Destructor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6 2014, 08:07 AM   #100
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: What Books Are "Canon"?

Christopher wrote: View Post
In my Hub stories in Analog, I established that the translators in that universe are implanted between the brain and the larynx, so that you actually say the words in the target language you've selected, even if you don't know that language.
Babel fish have their limitations.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:31 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.