Great news, number of "Godless" increases

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by RAMA, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 1999
    Location:
    USA
  2. Safefta Pardek

    Safefta Pardek Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Location:
    Romulus, on a Spy Mission.
    Is being atheist a bad thing? The last I checked, it just meant that they didn't believe in any sort of g-d.
     
  3. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2000
    Location:
    QC, IL, USA
    What an odd and offensive way of presenting this information.
     
  4. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Location:
    RJDiogenes of Boston
    This is both good news and bad news. It's good news because an atheistic society would be more rational and more progressive, with fewer ancient prejudices hindering the Arts and Sciences (not to mention civil rights). It's bad news because most of this decrease in the theistic demographic will be at the expense of the more benign individuals, leaving more extremists with less moderating influences-- indeed, as the total percentage of theists in society decreases, extremists will grow more extreme in response.
     
  5. Briquettes

    Briquettes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Umm, gratz to the OP on insulting every religious person on the board? Religion in and of itself isn't a bad thing. Neither is being atheist in and of itself a good thing. If we're talking purely about fundamentalism I might agree, but simply following a religion or believing in a god doesn't make a person any less progressive or more bigoted.
     
  6. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Yo, Dawg! I Heard You Like Avatars... In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Location:
    Hiding with the Water Tribe
    Had you simply presented that information as an increase in the number of atheists, there wouldn't be an issue (well, there might be, but there shouldn't). However, by equating the decline of people with religious belief in America with "progress," you insult people with those beliefs. They both convey the same information, but one frames it from a positive outlook and the other from a negative outlook. Regardless of what one believes, with a sensitive subject like religious belief or the lack thereof, it's best not to make waves in the OP if you want to have a reasonable discussion. Thanks.

    Now, with that out of the way, I would appreciate it if people would try and discuss the information from a factual perspective instead of being offended by the wording of the OP.
     
  7. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blooness Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    Location:
    on the couch
    Hooray for more of us "godless" heathens! (kidding) Actually, I think it's just that we're seeing more people in America being able to admit being agnostic or atheist without as much fear of being labeled "evil" or "immoral."

    You have no idea how often people have told me I'm soulless or "too logical" (like that's a bad thing?) or that I should never EVER publicly admit to being an atheist. When we were trying to adopt, one of our social workers actually gasped in horror when we said we didn't believe in any god; I have had friends tell me that it's hard for them to friends with someone who is "damned" and neighbors who physically backed away when we told them we're atheists and therefore had no interest in church.

    It's very hard and probably very bad for one's social standing, especially in Texas, to admit that you're an atheist.
     
  8. Hunter X

    Hunter X Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 19, 2001
    Location:
    Scotland
    ^I'm sorry to hear you've gotten such reactions, especially when adopting, which is a fantastic (and I imagine painstaking) thing to do.

    Also interesting how the original article paints the shift more as a "coming out" than a conversion. Like auntiehill says, it seems like quite a difficult thing to do in some (most?) parts of the States, and implies greater numbers than are reported even in that article.
     
  9. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain
    I'd have to go with pumpkin's sentiment. The tone of the OP is hostile intentional or not. By saying there is a loot of progress still to be made. Implies that you want to impose your beliefs (that there is no God or Gods) on others. Which is just as bad as those that have a religious belief trying to impose their belief on you.

    Most religions teach tolerance and respect of others no matter their beliefs. Unfortunantly the extremists found in many religions give religion as a whole a bad name.

    In the example auntihill cited above, why should religion even matter when it comes to adoption, surely it is more important to find loving/caring homes for children that need adopting. Atheist/Agnostics/RReligious people can all be loving/caring.
     
  10. mimic

    mimic Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Virginia
    I'm more or less in the closet in terms of being an atheist. My immediate family shares my (lack of) belief, as does my maternal grandfather. Other than that, a few close friends know. I specifically avoid ever talking about it at work because some religious parent would hear and demand that I be fired for being 'a poor role model' or somesuch. I have no doubt that the school would go along with the parent's demands, too - they've fired women for getting pregnant out of wedlock, apparently.
     
  11. scotpens

    scotpens Professional Geek Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Location:
    City of the Fallen Angels
    ^^ This. No doubt there are many "closet" atheists and agnostics. Maybe in a few more years, atheists will be the new gays!
     
  12. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    astral plane
    I'll also echo The Mediocre Pumpkin, and add my own two cents.

    It's unbecoming to be concerned with what people's religious beliefs are, if they are leaving others alone, especially when atheists just want to be free to be atheists themselves. The religion clauses of the First Amendment are meaningless if the existence of religious people who aren't interested in imposing their beliefs on others cannot be tolerated. The only problem that atheists should have from religious people should also be the only problem that people from other religions should have, which is when they try to impose their religion on others. As long as religious people respect the wishes of others not to join, for whatever reason, and atheists respect the wishes of theists to hold onto their beliefs, theists and atheists of various persuasions should—I think—be able to get along.

    Therefore, counting the number of theists isn't really the best measure of progress. Better would be to measure how tolerant the various groups are of each other, for example in terms of legislative agenda. For example, a decrease in legislation deriving from religious fundamentalism and a rolling back of such laws already on the books would be a definite and welcome sign of progress. The idea that social problems will be solved by everyone going atheist is a pipe dream, one reason, not the least of which, being that that will never come close to happening anytime this century.

    A great deal of scientific progress has been made by theists. Sir Isaac Newton is quite possibly the greatest scientific mind in human history, but he was certainly a theist. Although I'm an open agnostic, and therefore atheistic, I recognize that a lot of people are just simply happier in their religion. Atheism isn't for everyone, and I won't be going along with any program to stamp out any and all religion, especially so long as it stays out of the secular halls of society that should be open to and work for everybody regardless of their religious persuasion, or lack thereof.
     
  13. Amaris

    Amaris Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    United States
    Aside from here, I don't talk about it much, though I'm more along the agnostic line than a straight atheist, though that's a conversation for another time.

    Still, around here one doesn't talk about it, as it is a deeply religious area.
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Confederation of Earth
    Hope springs eternal (pardon the pun :lol: ).

    As for this thread: 1) I'm VERY surprised it isn't already in TNZ. 2) Meh. :shrug: Atheists are not a threat to me, so I'm having a hard time figuring out why I should be particuarly pissed.... even at the confrontational tone of the OP.
     
  15. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    I liked your whole post, Conscious Circuits, but this in particular. So many people erroneously think that religion and science are mutually exclusive.
     
  16. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Yo, Dawg! I Heard You Like Avatars... In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Location:
    Hiding with the Water Tribe
    You know, political and controversial subjects were banned from Miscellaneous for all of three whole months going on four years ago now (following the election of President Barack Omygodablackguy! and people apparently going insane as a result), and yet we still get people saying "Why isn't this in TNZ?" all the time.

    It's not in TNZ because the same type of threads can exist in both forums. The only difference is that you're not allowed to flame people in Miscellaneous while you can in TNZ. I really don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for people to grasp after all this time. Sorry to dump that on you, but it's frustrating to keep hearing that.
     
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Confederation of Earth
  18. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Yo, Dawg! I Heard You Like Avatars... In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Location:
    Hiding with the Water Tribe
    No worries, I'm just venting. It's not particular to you or anything. :)
     
  19. thestrangequark

    thestrangequark Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn thestrangequark
    I do think this is good news, in that it likely demonstrates, as others have already mentioned, that people feel more free to acknowledge their atheism/agnosticism, and that is demonstrative of a more accepting society. Maybe someday atheists will be able to shrug off the dubious claim to Most Hated Minority Group in America, though the intolerant and condescending attitudes of a small percentage of atheists certainly doesn't help. A very religious friend of mine made me a tee shirt that says "(cuddly) atheist" -- I always get compliments on it!
     
  20. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    astral plane
    Thank you.

    Yeah, this would be a very good thing.