On season 4 of Buffy...should I be watching Angel?

It seemed like he asked for his chip out and they gave him a soul instead. That's some odd misdirection though as 'You wish to be back the way you were' doesn't follow to getting his soul. It follows to becoming human again, but not to becoming a vampire with a soul as he's never been that before.

That's interesting, he was saying how he couldn't be either a man or a beast, and he chose man over beast.

 

Well as a human, he had soul so it kind of makes sense.

Love makes people do crazy things. He did it for Buffy.

 

I don't think you can expect the cryptic pronouncements of mystics to be that literal. I'm pretty sure the misdirect was that we were led to believe Spike wanted the chip out when he'd actually asked for his soul back. The surprise was for the audience, not for Spike. As you say, he said that he chose to be a man. Later on he stresses that that's the difference between himself and Angel -- that Angel had his soul forced on him as a punishment, while Spike earned his.

 

^ Which makes Spike the better man, and worthy of Buffy's love.

 

^That was his argument, anyway. Though whom Buffy should love is her own decision.

 

^ True. I know she loved Angel but I also like to think that she did love Spike as well.

 

Huh. So at the end of season three, a main character known to have psychic abilities develops them to a point where she can ascend to a higher plane in a white flash of light. Never seen that happen in a long running TV series before.

Obviously don't know what happens yet in season 7, but in season 6 I got the impression Buffy was feeling love toward Spike but she had to remind herself that it wasn't real. Basically he was like her sex pillow.

 

He started out as her sex pillow but if you recall her breakdown with Tara, it seemed to me that she started to love him but hated herself for it. She felt dirty and wrong.

 

I think she did feel love for him but had to remind herself it was no different than those people who fall in love with their sex pillows. Whatever happens in season 7 she wouldn't have to remind herself that anymore.

I'm curious now whether Cordelia is a Kes or a Daniel Jackson.

 

Season 7 is great, btw! After the darkness of season 6 it goes back to being a little more light-hearted. Kind of.

Sorry I can't help with Angel. I stopped after the first season.

 

Much like TNG-DS9 or Family Guy-American Dad, I felt the latter show initially started out much weaker but ultimately greatly surpassed the former.

 

Me too. Seasons 5, 6, and 7 are the ones I watch more than any of the earlier seasons.

 

I'd put Buffy above Angel so far just because I think the cast is more rounded and fleshed out. I kind of feel like the tone of the stories matches the lighter tone in Buffy more than the darker tone they're going for in Angel. They haven't de-camped it quite enough to make it really seem as dark as they want it.

IMO none of the MacFarlane cartoons have been watchable since prior to the original cancellation.

 

Season 7 of Buffy starts off strong but about halfway through becomes terrible with some truly repulsive moments.

Season 4 of Angel has some really good moments- "Spin the Bottle" and "Orpheus" in particular - but overall is wretched and the worst season in the Buffyverse.

Sorry.

 

^ In your opinion, to me it's one of the best. 5 star episode one after the the other for about 10 in a row.
(nothing wrong with different opinions of course, I just don't like when people state them as fact)


As for Spike, if he wanted his chip out he could already hurt Buffy with his chip anyway, so if he wanted to kill her why would he need it out? Unless he was planning to kill all her friends. But of course, all that worked so well for him in s2-4...

 

That is why I couldn't get into Angel. I didn't like the darker, more adult tone of the show, and I didn't find the characters all that interesting. But it's good you are watching both.

 

Conversely, I liked it because it was dealing with darker and more adult material.

No surprise that which show one prefers is going to depend greatly on what atmosphere they prefer.

 

Season 7 of Buffy accomplished the seemingly impossible task of making a Fillion character unlikeable. And I don't mean "unlikeable" in that he's the bad guy; I mean "unlikeable" in that it's just a shitty character.

And certain events don't shine certain members of the main cast (like all of them) in too good of a light either.

And I'll go one step further, not only do I think Angel 4 is the worst season of the Buffyverse, I think it's one of the worst seasons in all of SF&F TV. This current season of Gotham is giving it a run for its money, though.

 

I'm not willing to go for absolutes or hyperbolics, but I only bought seasons 1 and 2 of Angel on DVD. After that, I just plain didn't like the show any more.

 

I agree. As much as I liked this season, each of the Scoobies made me want to throw something my TV screen! But maybe they acted the way they did because they were under a lot more stress? Seven years of fighting evil finally took it's toll.