Seven Season Superthread

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by dub, Jan 2, 2015.

  1. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, it has an in-story explanation, but it can also be a real world reference. I don't think mine is a definitive interpretation. However, they did make subtle use of Brooks' ethnicity in some episodes (see Paradise--make sure you watch it all the way through).
     
  2. Kobayshi Maru

    Kobayshi Maru Commodore Commodore

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    You know sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, not everything has to be an allusion of some kind.
     
  3. Michael

    Michael Good Bad Influence Moderator

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    I feel the same when it comes to those kind of “vision” scenes, they do drag a little. But somehow “Emissary” is an exception for me. I think it's a brilliant way to incorporate background info about the new characters without resorting to regular flashbacks or clumsy verbal exposition. Thinking about it now, I wonder if it's really necessary to have the Wolf 359 flashback at the beginning. Those scenes could have easily been part of the Prophets' visions.

    Knowing about the ad and the controversy now, I honestly can't see how that little scene could have been meant as a reference to it.

    Didn't you skip an episode? Or are you watching in production order?


    Okay, here are my thoughts concerning last night's “Past Prologue”:

    RANDOM OBSERVATIONS

    • I think it's nice that the first episode (broadcast) after the pilot is a “Bajoran episode”. It further cements the show's premise of being stuck in the same place and having to deal with the problems created the last week (so to speak).
    • “Plain and simple Garak” completely steals the show, however. I wonder if they knew back then how lucky they were with the casting of Andrew Robinson. He can make even the worst lines of dialog sound brilliant.
    • Boy, that Cardassian transporter effect is so amazing! I love those golden sparkles!
    • Tahna Los doesn't sound like a good name to me. Maybe it sounds alright to an English speaker, but to my German ears it does sound strange, I don't know why.
    • Why is Tahna unconscious after the title sequence, when before he seemed more or less alright after they beamed him aboard?
    • What's great about “Part Prologue” is that it's basically a loyalty test for Kira. Sisko and we as the audience need to know where she stands. So that they address it right at the beginning is cool.
    • The biggest disadvantage of “Past Prologue” however is the casting of Tahna Los. They would have been better off casting someone with at least some charisma. Sorry, but most of the time Jeffrey Nordling just emitted boredom.

    THINGS I NOTICED FOR THE FIRST TIME

    • I love the rarely seen Cardassian desk communicator featured heavily in this episode, but mostly discarded later on. Odd, though, that in the scene with Gul Danar it can be seen in the background of Sisko's office. What, does he have to haul that heavy thing to his desk everytime he wants to call someone?
    • Parallel to this scheduled rewatch of DS9 I'm also currently rewatching Enterprise with my wife. So I was quite surprised to spot Vaughn Armstrong as a Cardassian in this one! I never used to notice him, but here he's so recognizable. Unfortunately, however, his Gul Danar doesn't leave a particularly strong impression.
    • That's the first time I thought Admiral Rollman's line (“Ben, that Bajoran woman you have working for you interrupted a staff meeting …”) was really inappropriate. The same goes for Sisko barking at her at the end, because she went over his head. It marginalizes Kira's rather important role on the station and, to me, mischaracterizes the working relationship she should have with Sisko. It just doesn't seem right that Sisko is superior to Kira; they should have been more equal. Why the hell shouldn't Kira have the right to talk to an admiral? It bothers me that Starfleet obviously doesn't take the Bajoran problem seriously enough to let the highest ranking Bajoran officer on the station take initiative.

    FAVORITE MOMENT

    • That's easy: That scene where Kira comes to Odo for his advice. That little scene really establishes their relationship for the rest of the series. I also loved the fact that Odo is the one making the difficult decision for her when he calls Sisko to tell him about Tahna's plan.
     
  4. Kobayshi Maru

    Kobayshi Maru Commodore Commodore

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    I seriously don't know what Kira was hoping to accomplish by calling that admiral. Did she really think they would take her word over the word of Sisko and just keep quiet about it. If she did then I must say that she's naive beyond belief.
     
  5. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think she was (A) flying off the deep end without thinking it through which was very much a character trait of early Kira, and (B) testing the Federation waters. This Federation is new to her and she was trying to learn who she should (and should not) trust, who would have her back, etc. It's the freedom fighter in her. She'll certainly never trust that Admiral again. She's still on the fence about Sisko at this point. ;)

    But...I'm probably being generous. It was probably mostly (A). :)
     
  6. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Vice Admiral Admiral

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    "A gun in the first act always goes off in the third:"we are talking about a story that was consciously written, not randomly thown out by an unconscious process.

    To everyone: I am offering an impression based on my viewing of the episode. I am not insisting on a definitive interpretation of the scene, and I am not arguing with anyone about it. If you disgree, ok.
     
  7. tafkats

    tafkats Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Whoops ... I didn't read closely enough, and went in Netflix order instead!

    Re: Bajoran names, I kind of like it when they sound unnatural to an English-speaking ear. The writers never fell into their usual alien name tropes with the Bajorans (things like using lots of K's, making names within a species all sound ridiculously similar, etc.) -- but there were still names that seemed alien enough to emphasize that they were a different culture. "Nerys" is a good example -- almost every two-syllable English name has the accent on the first syllable.

    Of course, I don't know anything about German name patterns.
     
  8. Kobayshi Maru

    Kobayshi Maru Commodore Commodore

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    Things ate different for every language. You can bet that there are languages in which either Kira or Nerys are actual names.
    Or insults!:lol:
     
  9. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Next up:

    Episode 4, Season 1 "A Man Alone"
    Rewatch date: January 17, 2015

    Original television promos (thanks to TrekCore for sharing on youtube)

    [yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCQCqg2MEkU[/yt]

    Watch or rewatch "A Man Alone" on January 17 or sometime over the next week, then join the discussion!
     
  10. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sorry, I'm late to this one but I wanted to at least get some thoughts in. I'll be lazy and just respond to some of M's observations. :p

    :techman:

    I agree, though he did give me the creeps being so touchy feely and flirty with Bashir in this episode. He came across as a dirty old man or something, even though he's not really "old." I don't know, I just found it creepy. I'm glad they didn't continue with that vibe because it wasn't working for me.

    This. Plus, it's not exactly "settled" for her, which is also cool.

    I totally agree with this.

    I can see how you would feel that way. But all of that plays into this episode being a big test for Kira.

    Absolutely! And I had forgotten how early in the series this started happening. So cool that it's only the second episode!
     
  11. Michael

    Michael Good Bad Influence Moderator

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    Sorry, I'm late. I did watch “A Man Alone” on Saturday, but didn't find time to actually make up my mind about it. Until now ...

    RANDOM OBSERVATIONS

    • The Bashir/Dax scene at the beginning is odd. Did it merely serve the purpose of (re-)introducing the concept of the holosuite, because the murder was going to take place there later?
    • The whole “Is Sisko interested in Jadzia?” thing is funny in how absurd it is. At first I thought it would only be Odo who was too alien to realize Sisko would never fall for what's essentially his mentor, but then we have Julian who also sees them as lovers!
    • Inadvertent Foreshadowing (this should really be a drinking game with this show): Odo tells Quark he “doesn't couple”. Well, let's see, Constable!
    • I might as well come out now as a big fan of the Keiko/O'Brien relationship. For some reason most Niners view her as a nuisance, but I love Keiko and think their marriage is probably the most realistic of all the series. Their problems seem very understandable and real. (Although I must say, that it stretches credibility, that a botanist could assume the role of a school teacher.)
    • I just wanna know what a Jumja stick tastes like. They look so delicious!
    • In contrast to TNG the producers seem to have made the conscious decision to rely more on real on-set CRT monitors instead of CG inserts or animated backlight effects. I must say I like that aesthetic, both in Bashir's infirmary and in Ibudan's quarters. It gives the show a unique look and subconsciously reminds us that this is older, Cardassian technology. I wonder, though, how they would hold up if the show eventually did get the HD treatment.
    • In parallel with last week's “Past Prologue”, this time Odo rather than Kira seems to be the one whose loyalty is put to the test. It's interesting that they put these episodes back-to-back. The only thing missing is an episode with a loyalty test for Quark – the third “outsider” in the main cast.
    • Just like last week's episode, this one really suffers from poor casting when it comes to the Bajoran roles. Both Ibudan and Zayra (whose name I've taken from MA, do we learn his name in the actual episode?) remain rather bland. Also: What kind of name is “Lamonay S.”? :wtf:

    THINGS I NOTICED FOR THE FIRST TIME

    • Is the episode's title an allusion to something? “A Man Alone” sounds like the title of a Film Noir detective thriller, which it certainly could have been, but obviously chose not to.
    • Sisko calls the Bajorans “Bajora” in this episode. Interesting.
    • Do we ever see that set of Ibudan's quarters again? It looks like it was build especially for this, but I can't remember if we're ever going to see it again.
    • In the end when Bashir has uncovered the truth about Ibudan's cloning, why does he exclaim it loudly on the promenade in front of everyone? Isn't he afraid the murderer (or an accomplice) could be alerted?

    FAVORITE MOMENTS

    • Quark defending Odo when the Bajorans badmouth him at the bar.
    • Odo offering his services to Quark after he has been suspended.

    Yes, that scene is blocked in an odd way. I guess it's because they had to make do with so few extras.

    Which should mostly be fine, shouldn't it? Off the top of my head I can only think of two cases where they shuffled episodes around. There could be more, though.

    To me, this actually is kind of the problem: to my ears “Tahna Los” sounds almost too natural, too familiar. I can't think of a German name that is exactly like it, but the overall sound could be German. I guess it just doesn't sound alien enough.

    Funnily enough, in the German dub her name is pronounced with the accent on the first syllable. :lol:

    “Kira” is actually a pretty common girl's name. In fact, I know several Kira's personally.

    Really? I liked that vibe. He positively came across as a creep who is just playing with Bashir. I think it kinda helped his characterization. I have to watch out for his next appearance; maybe I can see what you mean about them dialing it back.

    True. And if you think about it, all the wonderful character constellations that would make up the later seasons were already evident in these first episodes:

    • Quark and Odo
    • Odo and Kira
    • Kira and Sisko
    • Sisko and Jake
    • Jake and Nog
    • Sisko and Dax
    And all of this in the first season! When I rewatched the series the last time a few years ago I was actually rather surprised when I realized how much of the Jake and Nog friendship is in the first season, when in the later years it sometimes seemed like Cirroc Lofton wasn't even part of the cast anymore.
     
  12. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hey, hey! Time for the next episode!

    Episode 5, Season 1 "Babel"

    Watch and discuss! :)
     
  13. Kobayshi Maru

    Kobayshi Maru Commodore Commodore

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    Did anyone notice that among the Mob yelling against odo, you can see Morn? Weird, huh?
     
  14. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sorry...I'm breaking my own rules and playing a little catch up!

    Two thoughts on "A Man Alone":

    I just love the love-hate relationship between Quark and Odo. And their chemistry is awesome. Love it! And this episode does a great job with that.

    Some of the make-ups in this episode and many early episodes are rather shoddy. You can see where the appliance ends in some cases. In other cases, it's very clear you're looking at an appliance. And we're watching the SD version! And I'm talking about characters with speaking roles! Specifically Odo, Kira, and some of the guest stars who spoke. I'd love the opportunity to see how awful it looks in HD! LOL At any rate, they certainly worked out the kinks as the series moved forward and the make-ups looked much more seamless.

    Some replies to thoughts on "A Man Alone":

    Since Odo is an intensely private man, this didn't surprise me at all. But I agree, it would have been a better exchange with Sisko, with Quark making fun of him about it in the background.

    I couldn't agree more about all of that. I think we are in the minority! I also agree about Keiko becoming a school teacher. I actually think sprucing up the promenade with some beautiful plants sounds pretty awesome!

    I was going to make the same comment!

    We get that with "Move Along Home."

    LOL! I don't know, but it sounds great when Odo says it sarcastically! :lol:
     
  15. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "Babel"

    I'm not a fan of this episode. Seems like you could re-write a few lines and it could be a Voyager episode. So for me, the plot was just...meh.

    What I did like was O'Brien working himself pissed. That's always great because it's very "O'Brien."

    I liked the scenes with Odo and Quark together, as usual.

    There was a scene when Sisko learned Jake contracted the aphasia and Sisko embraced him. That was a touching moment.

    I think it's strange that Odo suddenly knows some radom things about problem solving for the station as a whole when it's danger.

    I loved it when Quark was in charge of ops. All of those scenes with him were great.

    The last scene with Sisko saying "O'Brien!" was supposed to be cute I guess, but for me it didn't work for me. Though it was a very TOS-esque ending...minus Sisko giving us an extended on-screen creepy laugh at the end (à la Kirk). LOL
     
  16. Kobayshi Maru

    Kobayshi Maru Commodore Commodore

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    I like the scene where Quark is checking if a customer of his is faking it to avoid paying the bill.:lol:
     
  17. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Episode 6, Season 1 "Captive Pursuit"

    Watch and discuss! :techman:
     
  18. Kobayshi Maru

    Kobayshi Maru Commodore Commodore

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    I love Sisko's fake dressing down of O'Brien in the end while they both knew that Sisko's the one who made it possible for Tosk to escape.

    Tosk kinda look like a Jemhadar, he even has their shrouding ability, plus he's genetically engineered. Are Tosk's creators related to the Dominion? Given that we never heard from them or the Tosk again, we never had an answer to that question either. One can only speculate.
     
  19. kirkfan

    kirkfan Commodore

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    This thread is a fantastic idea. I promise I'll follow it regularly from now on.
     
  20. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Awesome!

    I enjoyed "Captive Pursuit" mainly because I really found Tosk interesting, mysterious, and likable. And adorable in a weird way. Plus, any friend of Miles is a friend of mine!

    Whoa...the first time the hunters showed up I remember feeling scared for the station. The special effects used for them were very...video gamey. Even so, it's nice to see a beaming effect that's at least somewhat different.

    The thought definitely crossed my mind as well during my first re-watch!