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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old September 21 2014, 11:45 PM   #106
Garren
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

dub wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post
Warlord works perfectly fine as the 'breaking point' for their relationship.
I totally disagree. In "Warlord" she was being controlled by an alien, so that doesn't count. Then based on dialogue in subsequent episodes we're supposed to believe they broke up for real but I guess we just didn't see it, or maybe what we saw was real. Sorry, that's not how I took it at all. Perhaps one could analyze it and show how it makes sense on paper, but that's no substitute for how it made me feel actually watching it unfold. It sucked. And where where was the big emotional breakdown from Neelix...
I found this topic searching for answers regarding this subject! Glad I'm not the only one who was caught off guard by this. I truly thought the scene in Warlords didn't count because Kes was not herself. Reading the thread, I really wish the writers had done more with this. I'm pretty sad that Kes and Neelix didn't stay together. I enjoyed them being together because they were an imperfect couple who were in love.
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Old September 24 2014, 09:19 PM   #107
Lynx
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

The breakup was handled badly by the writers.

Kes breaks up with Neelix in "Warlord" when she's possessed by an alien entity. Then there are no more explanations why, not even after Neelix actually does his best to free her from the alien intruder.

As I see it, the Kes-neelix relationship started to crumble in season 1 ("Twisted", which technically is a season 1 episode) when Neelix's jealousy and over-protection of Kes is becoming more and more annoying. It continues in season 2 where they both are drifting apart (Kes is occupied with her job in sickbay, her studies and her new social life on board Voyager while Neelix is getting more and more into his different roles as Morale Officer, journalist and chef).

What we should have had was a break-up during 2-3 episodes in season 2, starting with "Parturition" where it should have been made clear why they broke up, like them drifting apart for reasons I've mentioned above. Not the unconvincing break-up they showed us in "Warlord", an otherwise very good episode.

Unfortunately, this was just another example that the writers couldn't handle relationships or feelings between characters. Both Voyager and TNG suffered from that.
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Old September 24 2014, 09:33 PM   #108
Guy Gardener
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

She wouldn't put out.

He may have been loyal, but once the leash was slipped, this kitchenrat had two years worth of celibacy to murder as quickly as possibly.

Kes. "Neelix, I didn't mean it!"

Neelix. "Oh. Wow, sorry. You really should have got back to me about this little faster, I've already moved on. I've rrrrrreally moved on, to a lot a places, if you know what I mean... Oh? you don't know what I mean do you?'
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Old September 24 2014, 10:18 PM   #109
dub
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

Or, Guy, perhaps Kes gave Neelix the glitter and it pissed him off.
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Old September 24 2014, 10:42 PM   #110
Relayer1
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

dub wrote: View Post
DigificWriter wrote: View Post
Warlord works perfectly fine as the 'breaking point' for their relationship.
I totally disagree. In "Warlord" she was being controlled by an alien, so that doesn't count. Then based on dialogue in subsequent episodes we're supposed to believe they broke up for real but I guess we just didn't see it, or maybe what we saw was real. Sorry, that's not how I took it at all. Perhaps one could analyze it and show how it makes sense on paper, but that's no substitute for how it made me feel actually watching it unfold. It sucked. And where where was the big emotional breakdown from Neelix...
Very little had any effect going forward in Voyager. After the end of the episode, everything was sorted out, shiny and new by the start of the next one...
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Old September 25 2014, 03:20 AM   #111
Drone
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Re: What happened with Kes and Neelix?

Even though I don't hold their relationship in disdain as do many, I found the breakup as (barely) enacted eminiently sensible. Kes ultimately proved to be Tieran's superior in her mental fortitude, determination and of course, psionic abilities. However, he was pretty perceptive about people's feelings and deep seated motivations that forged their behavior. Naturally he had to get Neelix out of the way so as to undetectedly proceed with his operational planning, presumably in a non-terminal fashion. I find it noteworthy that while the Dear John conversation was decisive, Tieran's manipulation of his host seemed to evince touches of regret and conscience at what he was doing as, cognizant of the depth of feelings on both sides in the relationship, he was almost sorry to have to give it the old kibosh.

Nevertheless, I think he was only articulating a sense that was building in Kes, probably since Cold Fire anyway, giving voice to a framework of inchoate aspirations and desires that Kes still was not in a position to yet do on her own accord. Her mental abilities that were likely, if perhaps unseen, continuing to be teased out by Tuvok, the exposure to sensuality by Tanis, that while fleeting and disorienting, had to have made a strong impression, as well as maybe a hope to play a more prominent role on Voyager as an individual actor.

The intensity and gravitas of what she was made to endure and the ferocity of her fight for freedom was such that when liberated, Kes didn't even experience an aha moment as regards Neelix, but rather just soberly understood and accepted the verity of what Tieran had said. As well as gaining a much keener appreciation of the fraility and tenuous quality of mortality than she had before, I think she underwent a clear eyed and spontaneous elevation in her understanding and appreciation of the meaning and significance of an interpersonal relationship.

An abrupt break? Certainly, but reasonable in how Kes's story was evolving and fitted well, I think, to the construct of her personality.
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