Ziyal - good addition or better left out?

[heavy lids]

The Regent wrote:

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Personally, I found her character grating over time. I didn't understand her choosing Garak over her father after all he'd done and gave up for her. She just kept on betraying him the moment she felt a little angry then it was right back to him because she couldn't stay mad.

All he did was not kill her. That's it. If it wasn't for Kira, Dukat would have killed Ziyal. She really doesn't owe Dukat anything. And her choosing Garak over Dukat isn't betrayal, it's just her making her own decisions without having to get relationship approval from her father(that shit went out of style 400 years ago).

[TheRoyalFamily]

The Regent wrote:

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I found her death useful for the BSOD and Despair Event Horizon that Dukat underwent but I felt it weird that Garak didn't have one as well. I understand that, being a spy, he would hide it but he didn't even bring it up when he was fighting The Dominion on Cardassia. It was like it was like she was here for a moment then gone.

I never saw Garak as really too attached to her. He softened to her a lot, but they never really seemed that close. Oh, of course Ziyal was all hot for him, but it didn't seem reciprocated. In fact, I'd bet Garak mostly liked her for the reactions their relationship got from Dukat

[Nerys Ghemor]

Dal Rassak wrote:

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I've just thought of something else... I reckon Dukat got that attached to her not just because of her being symbolic of his whole Bajor obsession (good point, Royal Family), but because she is actually willing to believe he's perfect; she wants and needs to believe that. Being such an essentially narcissist individual as Dukat is, that kind of adoration on a daily basis would certainly go down like honeyed wine...

We have a winner!

This is a large part of what I think is going on.

At least personally, though, I think there is one other layer, too (though some may disagree with me on this). I think that Ziyal also embodied, in some ways, the better angels of Dukat's nature--and when she died, his last chance of "salvation" died with her.

(This is also part of why I characterize my alternate-universe version of Dukat the way I do: in that universe, the father and daughter are said to be very similar by those who know both.)

As far as Ziyal's naivete, I consider her psychological development to have been stunted by her captivity on Dozaria. Add to that the fact that in essence an impossible fairy tale came true for her (the idea that her father would be a knight in shining armor rather than coming to kill her), AND she was subsequently raised by a man whose psychological development was also quite immature...it's no wonder Ziyal is rather messed-up, though it displays in a much more innocent fashion than on Gul Dukat.

[trekkiebaggio]

I liked Ziyal. I wish she would have been used more. I would have liked to see a friendship between her and Jake, comparing what it's like to be the offspring of such prominent figures.

[Worf'sParmach]

I liked Ziyal. I think she was just the kind of character that made DS9 wuch a well-developed show.

[JirinPanthosa]

Ziyal did not see it as choosing Garak over Dukat, she saw it as 'No good reason I can't choose both, even though they hate each other'.

And then later she went against Dukat because she knew he was planning to hurt people.

[Scoobysnacks]

I've just gotten back into rewatching DS9 after a long hiatus. I have to say I liked the Garak/Ziyal relationship. I'd forgotten the multi-actress casting situation. I get why they went with Melanie Smith from an age standpoint. She didn't really seem 35 in that makeup and Garak seemed younger to me than Andrew Robinson in real life so it wasn't a problem from that standpoint.

In "Call to Arms" she kisses and hugs him on the way off the station, and Garak seems startled not by the idea that someone he doesn't have feelings for is kissing him, but that she feels a genuine love for him and an honest spirit when he's used to so many people having ulterior motives. He's holding her the way you do when you feel something for someone--even if he doesn't think he deserves to receive it, and even if it's not grown into love. He feels something, but with Garak it's always more complicated than that.

In "Sacrifice of Angels" he's among those reuniting with loved ones on the station, looking for Ziyal. It's not like he's just humoring her, knowing she expects to see him and he has to go through the motions. He's not just going to be relieved to see the other DS9 Cardassian is safe or that his friend's okay. As much as he likes Bashir, I dunno that I'd ever expect to see Garak looking around that way, anxious for a reunion. Ziyal feels about him the way no one else does. He's looking forward to seeing her, knows she'd be looking for him, and genuinely wants to reconnect with that innocent soul that thinks he's a wonderful person. He would've been happy and relieved to reconnect. I think that says a lot. We can't expect him to break down in tears in the infirmary. Kira wasn't doing that. They've both seen too much death and lost too many people.

If nothing else, he'd eventually have the My Fair Lady realization "I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face" and if his neck was on the line at some point in the future she'd try to stand with him rather than let him be scrappy on his own. I'm not sure if Garak thought he deserved to be loved by someone like Ziyal. That's why he couldn't figure out why she loved him. It wasn't some weird attachment on her part. It was that he didn't understand how he warranted anything like that from anyone, especially because his life has been lacking in trust for so long. Kind of sad.