Last Classic Who Story you watched

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Pindar, Aug 29, 2012.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^I gather that Philip Hinchcliffe played a role in the process as well. He was the producer by the time it was made, of course, and Holmes was his script editor. Although I read he didn't like the Daleks much, which I guess is why they didn't return until Graham Williams took over.
     
  2. arch101

    arch101 Commodore Commodore

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    Inferno. The Brigade Leader is dripping with evil -theatrically played by Nicholas Courtney.
     
  3. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's one of those overlap stories; Barry Letts had already decided to do a Dalek and Cyberman story in the new Doctor's first season before Hinchcliffe arrived, so he had no real say on it.
    Holmes on the other hand had done most of the actual script-editing work on Death to the Daleks the previous season (as Dicks was busy rewriting Monster of Peladon), which made him determined to push Nation into working harder and better.
    Then David Maloney arrived as director, pushed to make it brutally real, and Hinchcliffe said an eager yes to that
     
  4. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Man, they got the brutally real part right! I first saw this story when I was 10 and part 1 really freaked me out!!

    Mr Awe
     
  5. NigellaDeanna20

    NigellaDeanna20 Commander Red Shirt

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  6. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I just finished The War Games and I agree with pretty much everything you said. An epic, impressive story that doesn't drag despite its length. A strong group of guest character to go along with the main cast.

    The War Chief reminded me a lot of The Master and I could have bought a retcon on that front.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
  7. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There are fan theories that the Master was the War Chief, though lots of non-TV stuff rules it out.
    Equally, Philip Madoc always grumbled light-heartedly that Roger Delgado had stolen his role, and early drafts for Terror of the Autons do fit with the Master being the War Lord, regenerated after being rescued by the Nestenes from Time Lord custody (remember, the continuity is a bit fluid in 1970, so if that had been there it wouldn't have been a major issue).
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I used to like the idea of the War Chief being the Master, but I got the impression in my recent rewatch that the War Chief only knew of the Doctor from reputation ("I know who you are") rather than being an old friend. The Doctor recognized him, yes, but maybe only as a fellow Time Lord. At the very least, it seems they were acquaintances at most; there's no sense of a shared personal history, no hint from the Doctor of his complex and ambivalent feelings toward the Master (what Steven Moffat described as a close friendship between a vegetarian and a hunter). I gather some books have claimed that all three of them were friends in the old days, but I think that doesn't quite fit what we saw onscreen.


    Delgado was great, of course, but I have to admit that Philip Madoc playing the Master would've been awesome.
     
  9. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, Barry Letts instantly decided that he'd ask his old friend Delgado to play the role, and Madoc had too much other work in the pipeline to be available for a full season, so it was never a real possibility. But yes, it would have been interesting.
     
  10. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The War Chief is the Master, for me. From the first moment I saw him till today.

    Not only does his return in Terror of the Autons simply work much better in that regard, but his and Second's meeting with him in War Games is a fantastic display of two Time Lords who do their best to hide their true origins from the Time Lords of Gallifrey.
     
  11. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I just finished watching The Enemy of the World. It was a very good story. Patrick Troughton did a great job as both The Doctor (which he's always great at) and Salamander. Really, the only problem is that making Salamander hispanic was a bad decision. I think that it was a bit better here then what happened in The Talons of Wang-Chiang, because at least Salamander as a character was a bit better developed and the stuff with the character didn't revolve around his "race", but its still an unfortunate choice.

    That said, I still really liked the story. Really, the only story problem was how oddly obsessed The Doctor was with getting a bunch of evidence against Salamander. I get wanting to make sure you don't mess things up, but he took it a bit extreme in this case. Outside of that, it was a very good story that didn't feel slow even at six episodes. I'm glad they recovered this story.
     
  12. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, the 'need for proof' aspect does make the Doctor very passive. Obviously the scripting reason is to minimise the alternation of the two roles, so that apart from ep6 Troughton can just play one in studio while the other only appears in pre-recorded stuff, but it does make it more like a Hartnell story than a Troughton in some ways.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I don't see the problem with the Doctor demanding proof. After all, the world saw Salamander as a great benefactor; the Doctor wasn't just going to take Giles Kent's word that he was a bad guy. There is a thing called the presumption of innocence, after all. And as it turned out, the Doctor's instincts in mistrusting Kent were dead on.
     
  14. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The major problem is, as has been pointed out, Troughton frequently visits the 21st century, yet no-one ever says "Hold on, you look just like Salamander, that world saviour/dictator who iinexplicably vanished in 2017."
     
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  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, it's not like any of the other 21st-century stories were consistent with each other anyway. "The Moonbase" has the Gravitron on the Moon in 2070 and spaceships in routine use, but "The Seeds of Death" has the T-Mat relay on the Moon in the late 21st century and nobody's used spaceships in decades. And "The Wheel in Space" is sometime in the 21st century, yet the Wheel staff has never heard of Cybermen, even though the Moonbase staff remembered their 1986 invasion.
     
  16. The Four Doctor

    The Four Doctor Commander Red Shirt

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    How many of those are CONFIRMED ON-SCREEN to be the twenty-first century? How many of them are isolated bases or places which seem to be concentrating on science and excluding humanity's own history?

    I'm more concerned about the lack of world Salamander-ruled government in the current NuWho stories. Anyone would think the 1960s Who Production Team actually assumed Who wouldn't still be going in 2018* and therefore just didn't think about all these adventures set in the current day where people SHOULD be drooling over Salamander's Suncatcher solving all our problems.

    (Though you never know. Season 8 slipped in a pic of Troughton as Robin Hood, maybe Season 10'll have a sly Salamander reference.)

    *Well, OK, who DID? Let's admit it, even when the Glorious Resurrection was announced, none of us DARED to look ahead to a guaranteed series of Who in 2018...
     
  17. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Moonbase is 2070.
    Enemy of the World is, we now know from the recovered episodes, 2017.
    Wheel in Space is definitely 21st century, but no date.
    Seeds of Death is 2080s according to the Virgin books, but now fits nicely prior to Kill the Moon (to save Chris the effort, yes I know Kill the Moon is scientifically illiterate. But if it happened, putting a gravity device on the new Moon makes sense, and fits with the 'Been here for 20 years' comment in Moonbase.
    We could add in here Whitaker's original season six version of what became Ambassadors of Death, which MAY have been set in roughly the same 50 years ahead world as Enemy and Wheel, rather the sort-of-tomorrow UNIT era.
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    "Wheel"'s dating is very inconsistent -- in some respects, it seems like a distant interstellar future, but then Zoe said in "The Mind Robber" that she was reading comics in the year 2000 -- which would mean she was born in the late 20th century -- but in "The War Games" she insisted under mind probe that she was born in the 21st century. And even mathematical genius Zoe wasn't allowed to get more specific, because they didn't want to lock down a specific date.

    The point is, they weren't really trying to maintain that much continuity from serial to serial, or to build a consistent vision of the future. These were seen as disposable, one-shot adventures that would be forgotten after they were broadcast, and that would be watched by a young audience that might not even have been watching a year or two before. So the attitude toward continuity was totally cavalier. They didn't bother to try to maintain a chronology of when things happened in the future; the costume and scenery design notes pretty much labeled every future story as "the year 2000" as a placeholder for "unspecified future." So it's no wonder the date references we do have are so inconsistent.
     
  19. diankra

    diankra Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As Terrance Dicks said, continuity is what I can remember for as long as I'm here.
    It irritates slightly when you have someone like David Whitaker writing several stories in close succession, yet there are still things that worry us in hindsight!
     
  20. The Borgified Corpse

    The Borgified Corpse Admiral Admiral

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    Ouch! Forgotten already? You were just down ther
    Aww, I love Troughton's Salamander voice. It's such a fun accent to imitate.

    IIRC, in "The Mind Robber," it's the Doctor who states 2000 as the "attribution" date for Ze Karkus. But perhaps that's merely the date that the character was originally created. Perhaps Zoe didn't start reading his adventures until much later. Much like today we have many Doctor Who fans who weren't born yet when the series originally started. (Heck, I wasn't born until the Peter Davison years.)

    And perhaps Zoe didn't give a more specific date in "The War Games" because she was trying to resist the mind probe. The century was all the detail that the Security Chief was able to get out of her.

    Last night I was watching "Invasion of the Dinosaurs, Part 1." The black & white version, not the half-assed partially colorized version that they included on the DVD. Frankly, I think Pertwees stories often come off as more moody & atmospheric when I watch them in black & white, despite the fact that they were originally shot in color. It makes it feel more like the Troughton era, I guess, which works for me!