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Old December 8 2012, 06:56 PM   #16
timmy84
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Re: Starfleet non-coms

Well we know that Starfleet has noncoms. They are the guys with no rank insignia on their collars. I could be mistaken, but I think its been said that O'Brian could become an officer if he wanted too, so a program to allow enlisted to become officers exist. So if you just want to get out there now you can become an officer later.

I don't subscribe to the belief of ROTC programs for Starfleet officers. I don't know why really, I just don't feel it is that way. However I'm willing to believe that Starfleet has several training facilities across the Federation for enlisted personnel (although even this I doubt).

And as for reasons why someone would enlist, on the episode of Voyager where Janeway decides to work with the three worst crewmembers, one of them only enlisted in Starfleet because the school he wanted to go to required time served in deep space. So many reasons exist.

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Old December 8 2012, 08:55 PM   #17
The Wormhole
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Re: Starfleet non-coms

Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
but the general implication is that all officers are graduates of Starfleet Academy in San Fransisco.
That isn't the impression I got from TOS, only a few mentioned attending the academy. Kirk, Mitchell, and Merik (sp?). The other officers might have gotten their commissions through something like OTS, ROTC, etc.. There are a few pieces of dialog suggesting that Spock didn't attend the academy, same with McCoy.

And one episode suggests that Uhura might have been a mustang, she was enlisted prior to being an officer.


Well, in The Ultimate Computer when Commodore Wesley calls Kirk Captain Dunsel, everyone on the bridge gets it except McCoy. He then gets the explanation from Spock who explains it as an Academy term, making it clear that Kirk, Spock, Sulu and Chekov attended the Academy.

Of course, Trek XI shows everyone, even McCoy at the Academy.

timmy84 wrote: View Post
Well we know that Starfleet has noncoms. They are the guys with no rank insignia on their collars. I could be mistaken, but I think its been said that O'Brian could become an officer if he wanted too, so a program to allow enlisted to become officers exist. So if you just want to get out there now you can become an officer later.
Past Tense Part 1, O'Brien makes an off-hand remark about "that's why I stay an enlisted man."
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Old December 8 2012, 11:21 PM   #18
Ho Ho Homeier
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Re: Starfleet non-coms

In TOS, I always assumed McCoy was about 10 years older than Kirk (though Urban-Pine suggests less), and got his rank based on his existing medical degrees and experience. Don't current service organizations grant automatic officer ranks to enlisting specialists like medical personnel?
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Old December 8 2012, 11:28 PM   #19
Rķu rķu, chķu
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Re: Starfleet non-coms

^ Yep. IIRC, a military doctor is automatically commissioned at the O-3 level. My dad, for example, served in the Army Medical Corps. He was commissioned as a Captain right away after joining. Didn't have to go to West Point or boot camp or anything like that.
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Old December 9 2012, 01:04 AM   #20
Drago-Kazov
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Re: Starfleet non-coms

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Gotham Central wrote: View Post
What I could see though is something like a Starfleet version of ROTC at universities across the Federation.
You'd think so, but the general implication is that all officers are graduates of Starfleet Academy in San Fransisco. Seriously, there was a thread a while back where we went through the characters we know the training background of, and an overwhemingly high percentage are confirmed as graduates of the Academy.

Santa Kang wrote: View Post
Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post

In which episode did we see Rom and his colleagues who worked in the sewage department or something? They did not look like motivated workers.
Rom isn't in Starfleet or a Federation citizen. He doesn't even live in Federation space.
I think what Drago-Kazov is referring to is the DS9 episode The Assignment in which Rom is transferred to the station's engineering swing shift. The Starfleet officers among this shift don't share his enthusiam for the job.
That is the one.
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Old December 9 2012, 02:40 AM   #21
Ho Ho Homeier
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Re: Starfleet non-coms

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
but the general implication is that all officers are graduates of Starfleet Academy in San Fransisco.
That isn't the impression I got from TOS, only a few mentioned attending the academy. Kirk, Mitchell, and Merik (sp?). The other officers might have gotten their commissions through something like OTS, ROTC, etc.. There are a few pieces of dialog suggesting that Spock didn't attend the academy, same with McCoy.

And one episode suggests that Uhura might have been a mustang, she was enlisted prior to being an officer.


Well, in The Ultimate Computer when Commodore Wesley calls Kirk Captain Dunsel, everyone on the bridge gets it except McCoy. He then gets the explanation from Spock who explains it as an Academy term, making it clear that Kirk, Spock, Sulu and Chekov attended the Academy. . .
We're repeatedly told Starfleet are the best of the best. R.M. Merik, who washed out, apparently got a civilian job on S.S. Beagle. Or was the Beagle under a different military branch? There must be a large merchant marine fleet (that Starfleet could draw from), and a number of private personal craft. Should we be seeing more traffic during orbital scenes at Federation worlds?
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Old December 9 2012, 03:51 AM   #22
Santa Kang
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Re: Starfleet non-coms

Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Gotham Central wrote: View Post
What I could see though is something like a Starfleet version of ROTC at universities across the Federation.
You'd think so, but the general implication is that all officers are graduates of Starfleet Academy in San Fransisco. Seriously, there was a thread a while back where we went through the characters we know the training background of, and an overwhemingly high percentage are confirmed as graduates of the Academy.

Santa Kang wrote: View Post
Rom isn't in Starfleet or a Federation citizen. He doesn't even live in Federation space.
I think what Drago-Kazov is referring to is the DS9 episode The Assignment in which Rom is transferred to the station's engineering swing shift. The Starfleet officers among this shift don't share his enthusiam for the job.
That is the one.
Looking at that scene, I'd say the swing shift team that Rom joined, while not overly enthusiastic like like Rom, weren't apathetic either. They seemed like professionals who know their jobs having a start of shift meeting.
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Old December 9 2012, 10:45 AM   #23
Merry Christmas
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Re: Starfleet non-coms

Melakon wrote: View Post
We're repeatedly told Starfleet are the best of the best.
Hmmm, when were we told this? I mean about Starfleet in general?

The Enterprise Dee being the flagship might account for why so many of her officers (high and low) are academy graduates. Look at the situation with Barkley, went he did not perform to expectations, Riker's first thought was to simply replace him, cherry pick someone else from within the fleet. How many first officers would be able to do that?

Did either Jadzia or Ezra Dax attend the academy? It could just be they didn't tell stories of that time in their lifes, or they received their commissions through another path.


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Old December 9 2012, 05:21 PM   #24
Mysterion
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Re: Starfleet non-coms

Melakon wrote: View Post
We know that most, if not all, officers attended Starfleet Academy. But what of the lower ranks? Memory Alpha states the Academy does have an enlisted program, so that's one route. Are there others?

There doesn't seem to be a mandatory conscription or draft system in effect.

Could commercial or private schools be offering some sort of vocational degree meeting those requirements? Do you just walk in off the street at the corner Starfleet Recruiting Office?

I have no military experience at all, so I'm trying to figure how they convince civilians to enlist. Let's assume they don't always send out a ship captain to rescue you from a bar fight.
I've always assumed it works in a way similar to today's military organizations.

You've got the officers coming from the Academy. There may also be direct-cmmission programs for some medical or scientific specialties as well.

Then you've got folks who enlist in Starfleet, go through some sort of basic training (or boot camp if you will), followed by job-specific trainig for wehatever they'll be doing in the fleet.
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Old December 9 2012, 11:49 PM   #25
The Wormhole
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Re: Starfleet non-coms

Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
Did either Jadzia or Ezra Dax attend the academy? It could just be they didn't tell stories of that time in their lifes, or they received their commissions through another path.
Jadzia did. In For the Uniform she mentions trying to read Victor Hugo while at the Academy.
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Old December 10 2012, 12:58 AM   #26
Ho Ho Homeier
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Re: Starfleet non-coms

Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
Hmmm, when were we told this? I mean about Starfleet in general?
Yeah, I must have confused it with what we heard about the Enterprise. Possibly, I was under the influence of some mind altering substance at the time.
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