Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

JoeZhang · Jul 28, 2014

Alidar Jarok said: ↑

CorporalCaptain said: ↑

Bad Bishop said: ↑

Hank was a wife-beater in the comics? So what? Jimmy Olsen was a giant turtle boy in the comics, but that's ignored by the movies and TV.
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I'm not so much concerned about continuity for the sake of continuity as I am about there being a rare opportunity here in comic book adaptation to show superheroes coping with personal demons that many people in the real world have to deal with. More people IRL have to cope with domestic abuse than have to cope with the fallout of having been turned into a giant turtle.
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Yeah, I think it would make the character more interesting to not be afraid to embrace it. I'm saying this as someone who fully realizes that it's unfair to Ant-Man. It started as a simple panel where the direction was for Pym to just slap her. But the comicbook mantra of the time is don't do an action unless it's a big action, so that slap was drawn as knocking her completely off her feet.

Hank Pym wasn't the only one to slap a girlfriend in the comics. Matt Murdock has done it on occasion too (I want to say Heather Glenn, but I can't recall for certain). He somehow managed to avoid this label. So, if Hank Pym were a real person, I would say it was unfair to him. But he's not, he's a story character and, like it or not, other writers have chosen to explore this moment. I think that's a positive opportunity for more character development in the true Marvel fashion.
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Peter Parker struck a Pregnant MJ, Cosmic Boy gave one of his female team members a backhander for asking him to use his powers on a religious holiday but nobody remembers or references these.

Nerys Myk · Jul 28, 2014

Mostly because writers didn't latch on to it as the defining characteristic for those characters.

Marsden · Jul 28, 2014

I thought Hank's hitting Janet was actually a believable circumstance of the upheaval in his life at the time. She's rich and successful and he's a has been and his rage and jealousy got the better of him.

Out Of My Vulcan Mind · Jul 28, 2014

From Jim Shooter's blog:

In that story (issue 213, I think), there is a scene in which Hank is supposed to have accidentally struck Jan while throwing his hands up in despair and frustration—making a sort of “get away from me” gesture while not looking at her. Bob Hall, who had been taught by John Buscema to always go for the most extreme action, turned that into a right cross! There was no time to have it redrawn, which, to this day has caused the tragic story of Hank Pym to be known as the “wife-beater” story.

When that issue came out, Bill Sienkiewicz came to me upset that I hadn’t asked him to draw it! He saw the intent right through Hall’s mistake, and was moved enough by the story to wish he’d had the chance to do it properly.
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It was actually a left-handed backhander rather than a right cross, but an interesting note nonetheless... if Shooter's on the level here.

Corran Horn · Jul 28, 2014

I wonder what you could do to rectify things in that case. Maybe a call-out box in the beginning of the next issue or in the Ed. space at the end? Stepping out of the narrative is really the only way, I'd think, if you really didn't want to poison the character.

Marsden · Jul 28, 2014

This is the issue I remember:
http://marvel.wikia.com/Avengers_Vol_1_213

Out Of My Vulcan Mind · Jul 28, 2014

Bob Hall gave an account on Bleeding Cool's forum that backed up Shooter's recollection:

No, I think JIm probably has it right.
I never heard Jim’s side of the story. He never said he didn’t like the slap panel — on the other hand, I can’t imagine that he did. I would never have drawn that panel two or three years later and I certainly wouldn’t draw it now the way I did then.

There were two or three things operable when I drew that issue.

1. I didn’t like the the story. I didn’t hate Jim’s writing or the plot or that it advanced the characters etc. It’s just that I was getting to do The Avengers and I wasn’t crazy about Hank Pym having a breakdown. It was relatively early in my career and I wanted to draw the Avengers that I loved. A few years later I would have jumped at the chance but not right then. That means I didn’t have an affinity for the story and should probably have turned it down or at least discussed this with Jim. But I didn’t. I was trying to be a pro and do my job.

2. I was I wasn’t really a pro at that point. I was a fan with some skill. I could not have drawn the panel the way JIm wanted it. In fact, I remember re-drawing that particular panel several times — not for JIm but because I didn’t like the results. The final panel was the point where I gave up and thought — I know how to do Marvel action — I’ll make it Marvel action cause nothing else I’ve done seems right either. This particular assignment — the Hank Pym story, convinced me that I needed to go off and learn to draw. I started taking life drawing classes etc. in an effort to be able to do something more subtle than the pseudo Buscema/ Kirby stuff I had been doing and doing badly. I was just not able to produce what I wanted to produce. I think by the time I got to Squadron Supreme I was doing some stuff that at least seemed to have some humanity.

3. Even at the point of doing Squadron I was slow as molasses. Why I kept getting group books is beyond me. While I was doing Avengers that time I was even worse and as I kept trying to do the “character arcs” that JIm was developing I kept redrawing and redrawing. I don’t remember but I can’t imagine the book wasn’t late.

4. I have no memory of how the panel was described in the synopsis but the Marvel method gave you lot of lee way. What I interpreted then might have been quite different from how I would look at it now. I can’t imagine Shooter would not have asked for a re-draw had there been time.

I hope this clarifies things a bit. I’m not ashamed of the issue — I did the best I could then — but I in this instance, I don’t doubt Jim’s story.
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wulfio · Jul 28, 2014

nic cage should be ant man. he can channel the whicker man.

Alidar Jarok · Jul 28, 2014

Out Of My Vulcan Mind said: ↑

From Jim Shooter's blog:

In that story (issue 213, I think), there is a scene in which Hank is supposed to have accidentally struck Jan while throwing his hands up in despair and frustration—making a sort of “get away from me” gesture while not looking at her. Bob Hall, who had been taught by John Buscema to always go for the most extreme action, turned that into a right cross! There was no time to have it redrawn, which, to this day has caused the tragic story of Hank Pym to be known as the “wife-beater” story.

When that issue came out, Bill Sienkiewicz came to me upset that I hadn’t asked him to draw it! He saw the intent right through Hall’s mistake, and was moved enough by the story to wish he’d had the chance to do it properly.
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It was actually a left-handed backhander rather than a right cross, but an interesting note nonetheless... if Shooter's on the level here.
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That's the quote I remember. It doesn't change my point that, good idea or bad idea at the time (or intentional or accidental), it's still something that has been part of the character since then and would be interesting to explore.

CorporalCaptain · Jul 28, 2014

Right. If it was "drawn wrong," then that means it's correct to interpret what was published as a strike. The ship on what the panel depicted sailed as soon as that issue hit the stands.

Out Of My Vulcan Mind · Jul 28, 2014

^^^
I agree, but the behind the scenes back story of how it came about is interesting.

CorporalCaptain · Jul 29, 2014

Out Of My Vulcan Mind said: ↑

^^^
I agree, but the behind the scenes back story of how it came about is interesting.
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Oh, very much so. Thanks for posting those quotes. I'm always interested in learning about the creative process.

Turtletrekker · Jul 29, 2014

An interesting and timely quote from Kevin Feige...

Hank Pym's notorious for two things in the comics, and one of them is now what Iron Man's going to be notorious for in "Avengers 2" -- the creation of Ultron. And the other one is that unfortunate spousal abuse story.

Guess what we're not doing! [Laughs] Look, Hank Pym did a lot in the comics, and he's a super cool character. And the spin that we have on him being played by Michael Douglas is even more unique, even more different. I would say that some of the spirit of that plays into his temperament in the film, plays into his gruffness in the film. It certainly does not, in this movie, go to spousal abuse.

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Alidar Jarok · Jul 29, 2014

Yeah, it was either that quote or a related recent quote by Feige I was referring to when I wrote this:

Alidar Jarok said: ↑

Well, like I said, many of the more extreme aspects are not going to part of the character at all, according to Feige.
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CorporalCaptain · Jul 29, 2014

Turtletrekker said: ↑

An interesting and timely quote from Kevin Feige...

It certainly does not, in this movie, go to spousal abuse.

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Interesting that he chose to make the qualification "in this movie." Perhaps the door is staying open, at least for now, to explore that down the road.

By the way, the link is broken.

JD · Jul 30, 2014

For anyone who's never actually seen it, here is the infamous slap panel.

Alidar Jarok · Jul 30, 2014

Even leaving that panel aside, his behavior there wasn't all that noble. Syndrome was a bad guy in The Incredibles after all.

Turtletrekker · Jul 30, 2014

Well, the whole point of the story was that he was having a nervous breakdown.

The Old Mixer · Jul 30, 2014

Song dedication for Hank Pym:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQX5HGWaLdc[/yt]

JD · Jul 31, 2014

I just found the Ant-Man cast and Peyton Reed's visit to the Entertainment Weekly Comicon Hangout.
Michael Douglas actually gives a fair amount of details about the backstory, including Janet's fate.

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