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Old May 16 2014, 08:28 PM   #76
Captaindemotion
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.6 - "The Laws of Gods and Men" - Rate and discus

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Bisz wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Did you guys watch the same scene I did? Did no one pay attention to Shae's performance? ... the only conclusion one could really draw is that she was forced under duress to go along with this, perhaps with the promise that Tyrion's life would be spared in exchange for her cooperation.
To answer your question, clearly no, we did not watch the same scene.

Her performance did not say "I'm sorry Tyrion, I'm being forced to do this against my will, help me!"

It said "You had called me just a whore and sent me away, well, here I am, just a whore, whoring myself to someone else now."
Her performance doesn't read that way at all.
To you, perhaps. Your opinion is of course valid and as legitimate as anyone else, but it's hardly 'the only conclusion one could really draw.' Interpreting a performance is an entirely subjective thing.
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Old May 16 2014, 11:14 PM   #77
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.6 - "The Laws of Gods and Men" - Rate and discus

Agreed, and I interpret it the same way as Bisz. It's ambiguous enough that I can accept I could be wrong, but where Robert saw coerced, I saw scorned. Considering the "flexible" integrity of most characters on this show, I have no trouble at all imagining her acting out of spite.

FWIW, I do hope I'm not wrong, as having her be a victim (and thus a presumptive ally of Tyrion) would kinda be a copout. The reason Dinklage's performance is so resounding is that it really illuminates the astounding amount of betrayal demonstrated by all those conspiring against him he feels in that very moment. Shae being, as it were, the final straw. It would be deflating if they took the corny, clichéd way out (and also entirely inconsistent with the tone of this show).
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Old May 17 2014, 07:17 PM   #78
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.6 - "The Laws of Gods and Men" - Rate and discus

Anwar wrote: View Post
Yes, in the books she's basically this 1-Dimensional clingy girl who we're never meant to like.

Then again, Tywin and Cersei are both kind of 1-Dimensional in the books as well and I'm very grateful the series chose to make them real characters in this adaption.
I disagree entirely. They are different characters, more sympathetic characters, but they aren't any more "real." Some folk are just shitty people.
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Old May 17 2014, 10:21 PM   #79
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.6 - "The Laws of Gods and Men" - Rate and discus

Thing is, the reason why book Tywin and book Cersei are shitty people is purely for Tyrion's benefit. Martin made them both so 1-Dimensionally nasty simply so we'd cheer for Tyrion more and to make him sympathetic no matter what he does. It's nothing to do with their own characters or just because "there are shitty people out there", it's entirely just to make Tyrion look good.
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Old May 18 2014, 06:39 AM   #80
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.6 - "The Laws of Gods and Men" - Rate and discus

We apparently read different books.
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Old May 18 2014, 07:00 AM   #81
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.6 - "The Laws of Gods and Men" - Rate and discus

Venardhi wrote: View Post
We apparently read different books.
Different scenes, different books.

There's a lot of Game of Thrones going around.
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Old May 18 2014, 07:16 AM   #82
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.6 - "The Laws of Gods and Men" - Rate and discus

If anything, it's the show that's gone to great lengths to make Tyrion look good. He wasn't as awful as the rest of his family in the books, but he was no saint, either.
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Old May 18 2014, 02:10 PM   #83
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.6 - "The Laws of Gods and Men" - Rate and discus

Anwar wrote: View Post
Thing is, the reason why book Tywin and book Cersei are shitty people is purely for Tyrion's benefit. Martin made them both so 1-Dimensionally nasty simply so we'd cheer for Tyrion more and to make him sympathetic no matter what he does. It's nothing to do with their own characters or just because "there are shitty people out there", it's entirely just to make Tyrion look good.
Book Tywin is not one dimensional, and book Cersei is definitely not one-dimensional, she's one of the most complex characters in the books.

Show Tywin, apart from having the advantage of Charles Dance's presence and charisma, is just more inconsistently written (some of his season 2 behavior makes no sense in the context of how he behaves later on) and show Cersei is whitewashed, watered down, and largely desexualized, and, while Joffrey was alive, was made into a background mom character who stands by and can't do anything to influence her son (kind of like Catelyn on the opposite side of fence, come to think of it). That doesn't make her more "complex" or interesting than the book version. I'd say it makes her the opposite.
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Old May 18 2014, 02:53 PM   #84
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.6 - "The Laws of Gods and Men" - Rate and discus

My wife has read all of the books... I haven't. I couldn't wait, so I asked her to tell me what's about to happen - according to what she's read. I am now so excited to see it all go down. Oddly, the knowing hasn't ruined a thing for me.
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Old May 18 2014, 07:45 PM   #85
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.6 - "The Laws of Gods and Men" - Rate and discus

I read it the same way as Bisz did, but I'm happy to find out I'm wrong and that the story veers in a new direction.
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Old May 19 2014, 08:29 PM   #86
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Re: Game of Thrones 4.6 - "The Laws of Gods and Men" - Rate and discus

How long until the dragons are rideable?
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