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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 19 2013, 12:36 PM   #556
JarodRussell
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Re: Orci strikes back

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
How long you been in this fandom? Or any fandom? People are going to call people on hypocrisy. In short: Bring the "A" game. Got an opinion? Great. Start citing how "X" is worse that "Y" cause "Y" is a superior product, you better be willing to back it up and then brace to get it torn down and torched.
If someone is posting their opinion on some important political issue like universal health care or gay marriage I would agree with you. I do not agree with you when it comes to frivolous things such as films. I was talking to a Star Trek fan at work a few weeks ago and he mentioned that Deep Space Nine was the worst Star Trek series without backing up his opinion. Should I have aggressively interrogated him and forced him to compare everything he didn't like to the other series? Should I then have "torn down and torched" his argument if his responses didn't satisfy me? Of course not, so why should we behave any differently on these forums?
Eventually this is what always happens. The last resort when someone doesn't like a piece of entertainment is dissecting that opinion down to the tiniest level. It's an attempt of turning an opinion into something objective, which is a fallacy in itself.

Nitpicks are a symptom, not the cause, guys. When you see a movie, you either like the overall package or you dislike it.

So that whole "you must hold everything to the same standard" is absolute bullshit. Because there is no standard. The standard is at best "I liked it, so I overlook some flaws here and there" and "I disliked it, so I see flaws everywhere."

So stop that objectively scrutinizing bullshit. If that's your last straw in an argument to "defend" a film, just stop it.

Last edited by JarodRussell; September 19 2013 at 12:59 PM.
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Old September 19 2013, 12:38 PM   #557
BillJ
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Re: Orci strikes back

JarodRussell wrote: View Post

So stop that objectively scrutinizing bullshit. If that's your last straw in an argument to "defend" a film, just stop it.
Then, perhaps, it would be a good idea to quit dealing bullshit?
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Old September 19 2013, 12:42 PM   #558
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Re: Orci strikes back

Yorkshire Niner wrote: View Post

Why? Range, variety and depth are not necessarily negative things for a fictional universe.
There's a point where you move so far away from the core of a work that you lose what made it special to begin with.
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Old September 19 2013, 03:22 PM   #559
Sindatur
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Re: Orci strikes back

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Also, everyone would be naked.
Well...YEAH, that's why there would be no need for discussion
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Old September 19 2013, 04:20 PM   #560
SeerSGB
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Re: Orci strikes back

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Kelthaz wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
How long you been in this fandom? Or any fandom? People are going to call people on hypocrisy. In short: Bring the "A" game. Got an opinion? Great. Start citing how "X" is worse that "Y" cause "Y" is a superior product, you better be willing to back it up and then brace to get it torn down and torched.
If someone is posting their opinion on some important political issue like universal health care or gay marriage I would agree with you. I do not agree with you when it comes to frivolous things such as films. I was talking to a Star Trek fan at work a few weeks ago and he mentioned that Deep Space Nine was the worst Star Trek series without backing up his opinion. Should I have aggressively interrogated him and forced him to compare everything he didn't like to the other series? Should I then have "torn down and torched" his argument if his responses didn't satisfy me? Of course not, so why should we behave any differently on these forums?
Eventually this is what always happens. The last resort when someone doesn't like a piece of entertainment is dissecting that opinion down to the tiniest level. It's an attempt of turning an opinion into something objective, which is a fallacy in itself.

Nitpicks are a symptom, not the cause, guys. When you see a movie, you either like the overall package or you dislike it.

So that whole "you must hold everything to the same standard" is absolute bullshit. Because there is no standard. The standard is at best "I liked it, so I overlook some flaws here and there" and "I disliked it, so I see flaws everywhere."

So stop that objectively scrutinizing bullshit. If that's your last straw in an argument to "defend" a film, just stop it.
I nitpick and dissect stuff even if I like it. I want to know why I liked it. Personally, if my response is as simplistic as "I liked it" or "I don't like it", then I view that as a sign of a very shallow product. It has to hold up beyond the paint--to use a term--and have some substance. So if I like it, I'm going to go deeper into the "why" is to see if I really do like it or if I'm just impressed with the paint job.

And, yes, I hold all products to the same standard. Be it Star Trek, be it Star wars, be it Transformers, be it Macross. If the original/older stuff gets a pass on some of the idiocy that afflicts them, the newer stuff gets a pass on the same failings.
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Old September 19 2013, 04:31 PM   #561
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Orci strikes back

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post

That doesn't mean he has to put up with &^% from these fans (or anybody).
Orci can respond, of course. However, he ought not be surprised or offended by criticism from dedicated fandom. He would need to anticipate the same hesitation and suspicion if he were reimagining Shakespeare or Wagner, two other areas in which there is a built in and very opinionated audience. Added to that is the lore of fan involvement in making Trek a franchise with a long life. Saying that he is approaching things de novo--which is highly debateable--won't win his critics over.
Orci should have to put up with some criticism after all he can dish it out. But he doesn't have to put up with verbal abuse or personal attacks if thats what was happening.
he should be as protected from personal attacks as we are here on this or any other well moderated board.

A celebrity in my country nearly took desperate measures when she was constantly attacked on her (I think) twitter account. People were telling her to kill herself and to die when she hadn't done anything criminally or morally wrong. Just (perhaps foolishly) revealed too much of her inner self.

And now Orci doesn't have to put up with it as he is no longer interacting with the fans. Who suffers now - not him. The people who were enjoying the tweets and posts.
I never said, implicitly or explicitly, that Orci must live with death threats. Suggesting otherwise is a gross exaggeration.
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Old September 19 2013, 05:47 PM   #562
SantaSpock
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Re: Orci strikes back

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
Orci can respond, of course. However, he ought not be surprised or offended by criticism from dedicated fandom. He would need to anticipate the same hesitation and suspicion if he were reimagining Shakespeare or Wagner, two other areas in which there is a built in and very opinionated audience. Added to that is the lore of fan involvement in making Trek a franchise with a long life. Saying that he is approaching things de novo--which is highly debateable--won't win his critics over.
Orci should have to put up with some criticism after all he can dish it out. But he doesn't have to put up with verbal abuse or personal attacks if thats what was happening.
he should be as protected from personal attacks as we are here on this or any other well moderated board.

A celebrity in my country nearly took desperate measures when she was constantly attacked on her (I think) twitter account. People were telling her to kill herself and to die when she hadn't done anything criminally or morally wrong. Just (perhaps foolishly) revealed too much of her inner self.

And now Orci doesn't have to put up with it as he is no longer interacting with the fans. Who suffers now - not him. The people who were enjoying the tweets and posts.
I never said, implicitly or explicitly, that Orci must live with death threats. Suggesting otherwise is a gross exaggeration.
No I wasn't saying he even had death threats or even close (at least I hope not). My example was what happen to one celebrity when her fans/anti-fans got out of hand.

I didn't mean to say or imply that anyone here would sanction that sort of behaviour. I apologise if anyone took it that way - it was not my intention.
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