Diane Duane: Old School Trek II

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by EnriqueH, Sep 12, 2014.

  1. EnriqueH

    EnriqueH Commodore Commodore

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    I thought this deserved its own thread:

    In my "Old School Trek Writers" Thread, Diane Duane was mentioned.

    One of my favorite Trek books from back in the day was "Doctor's Orders".

    Did anyone see the connection between that book and the Commodore 64, mid 1980s video game "The Kobayashi Alternative"?

    The planet "Flyspeck" was one of the connections between the book and the game.

    Very, very cool.
     
  2. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I just re-read The Romulan Way a few days ago. I read it as a teen when it was new, which was so long ago I'd forgotten nearly everything about it anyways.
    It's a good book, and obviously very influential in the development of the Romulans. Ael is a good, strong character. I'm doing a read release order read thru of all my Trek novels (I have hundreds of them, not nearly complete, but still a lot), and I do plan to read/re-read all of Duane's Trek novels.
    This book really makes me think how much the Romulans got screwed over going forward in the franchise to prop up the Klingons as the "noble" enemies.
     
  3. Reanok

    Reanok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I really like Diane Duane's Romulan books. I reread them last year.
     
  4. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Moderator

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    Yep. I think I was the one who added those connections (inc. several alien races) to Memory Beta. The game was available in numerous formats, not just Commodore 64. Mine was for Apple IIe and I used to bring home the work computer, plus an extra external disk drive (at weekends with the Principal's commission), so I didn't have to keep switching disks during the game.

    I think the switch - Romulan traits being given to Klingons - dates back to the original script synopsis "Star Trek III: Return to Genesis", in which the Romulans and their bird of prey ship were suddenly given to the Klingons in the rewrites (sensibly, since general movie audiences probably wouldn't have understood all the various vulcanoids and which sides they represented - Saavik, Sarek, Kruge, Valkris, the reborn Spock being, etc). But it did have long-reaching effects, and we had Worf and other Klingons oft-quoting honor and duty in Season One of TNG.

    Valkris's acceptance of death by her lover in ST III was essentially an unnecessary Romulan ritual suicide. (Interestingly, Valkris is drawn with pointed ears in the ST III comic adaptation, although this was an artist error.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2014
  5. vegaslover62

    vegaslover62 Commander Red Shirt

    Doctor's Orders is my second favorite out of all the 500+ novels I own. (PAD's Vendetta being the first)

    My Enemy, My Ally is the only Trek novel I've read twice.
     
  6. Reanok

    Reanok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Doctor's Orders is a great book.I really like seeig Dr. McCoy in charge of the Enterprise.:)
     
  7. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Commodore Commodore

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    I think the switch dates back even further, to about 1967. Think of "Balance Of Terror" we had the Romulans talking about Honor, but then those traits were given to the Klingons in all their TOS appearances.
     
  8. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    Koloth never talked about honour.
    Or those Klingons chasing the Enterprise in "Elaan of Troyius" didn't seem particularly honourable. Neither did that joker in Friday's Child.
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Right. The Making of Star Trek, from 1968, defined Klingons as intrinsically treacherous: "Their only rule of life is that rules are made to be broken by shrewdness, deceit, or power. Cruelty is something admirable; honor is a despicable trait." (p. 257, emphasis added)

    And one paragraph above, it says about the Romulans: "Although members of a warrior society in which the strong alone survive, they live their beliefs with great integrity."

    Therin is quite right: The first time a Klingon mentioned honor was in The Search for Spock, which was written with Romulans in mind and then changed them to Klingons without altering anything else about them (which is also how the Klingons suddenly had Birds of Prey). And once TNG decided to "reform" the Klingons and make them allies of the Federation, they picked up that honor reference and ran with it, retconning the formerly treachery-loving Klingons as a people defined by their sense of honor, in order to enable audiences to see them as admirable.
     
  10. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    Nimoy was in charge of TSFS. I wondered why he let that get through. Or was it a deliberate plan? I can't see why not have Romulans continue on in TNG instead of Klingons.
     
  11. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder what the TNG era Klingons and Romulans would have been like if that switch hadn't taken place.
     
  12. EnriqueH

    EnriqueH Commodore Commodore

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    "Veree inte-resTING..."
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, the "You will be remembered with honor" thing was just one line, and the Klingons' behavior in the rest of the movie was pretty much their typical treachery and cruelty. As I said, it wasn't until TNG that the Klingons were clearly redefined as an honorable civilization.

    Keeping the Bird of Prey with a cloaking device is a bit harder to explain, but it can be taken as an outgrowth of "The Enterprise Incident"'s reference to Klingon-Romulan technology exchange. If Romulans were using Klingon battlecruisers, it stands to reason that they sold cloaks to the Klingons in exchange, and perhaps the BoP was a joint Klingon-Romulan design (although I think BoPs have subsequently been retconned as existing much earlier).


    Well, Roddenberry's original intention was to avoid reusing any of the TOS races in a major capacity, and take the show in a distinct direction. He was talked into adding a friendly Klingon character as a way of showing how much things had improved since the old days, and maybe as a way of bringing the Organians' prediction from "Errand of Mercy" to pass. It made sense to make Worf a Klingon rather than a Romulan because Klingons were the more prominent adversaries in TOS. We tend to think of Klingons and Romulans as having equal status as bad guys, but the fact is that in TOS, Klingons were in seven episodes and Romulans in only three (with speaking Romulan characters, as opposed to ships, in only two). The Klingons were TOS's primary villains and the Romulans were secondary. That's probably a factor in why TSFS itself chose to use Klingons.
     
  14. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    This is all very interesting.
    It's surprising to hear that the Romulans are only seen in two TOS eps. Even having watched the whole series several times, I think of them having a bigger presence. I suppose they make such a big impression it feels like they should be around more than they are.
    I get a bit tired of hearing about "honor" from 24th century Klingons. I found it very refreshing for Ezri Dax to be more critical of them after so much adoration for Klingons from other characters.
     
  15. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Vice Admiral Moderator

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    I may be misremembering, but didn't the Klingons have cloaks already in TAS?
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    There is a reference to that effect in "The Time Trap." After the Klothos vanishes in the Delta Triangle, Spock says, "Nor was its disappearance the type that would have been effected if it were using its cloaking device."
     
  17. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Moderator

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    A few years ago, I found a batch of my "Star Trek" movie scripts. I'd forgotten that I owned three versions of the ST III script, in addition to Harve Bennett's slim bootlegged premise, ST III: "Return to Genesis".

    In the so-called FIRST DRAFT script of "ST III: The Search for Spock", dated March 23, 1983 - well after the Romulan crew of "Return to Genesis" had officially morphed into a Klingon crew - Bennett has this to say, in the script notes, about the controversial makeup change from TOS:

    "Present are the 1ST LORD of the Klingons, and his command staff. The variety of Klingons will be fully explored. Elders have been seen in STAR TREK I. Forehead bumps are marks of age and wisdom, not common. What is common is that they are a dark race of large and frightening appearance."

    The "elderly" Klingon idea has been nixed by the REV. FINAL DRAFT of September 13, 1983, because Valkris wears a half-veil to hide her bumps, and Kruge is described as a "handsome but frightening presence, and relative youth".

    (Since those early days, of course, we've seen Alexander, Worf's son in "The Next Generation" series, as a toddler with a matching bumpy forehead to his Dad's. Then we had Worf's enigmatic comment in DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations", and a two-part explanatory episode about the origins of smooth-foreheaded Klingons in "Star Trek: Enterprise".)

    The early script also specifies a flotilla of Klingon heavy cruisers, and Kruge's cloakable Romulan Bird of Prey that "Trek buffs will recognize" from its "distinctive bird & wing motif". After they watch the Bird of Prey turn visible, the script goes on:

    1ST LORD: What is this? None of you knew?

    3RD LORD (hastily): It is his toy, sir. A Romulan prize. He has perfected their Cloaking Device.

    1ST LORD: Commander Kruge, I want you here... Now!

    INT. BIRD OF PREY BRIDGE - ON KRUGE

    KRUGE: Always your servant, my Lord.

    (He turns and CAMERA reveals his CREW, the most awesome collection of large, cruel and piratical men since the Pittsburgh Steelers of the Seventies. We will see more of them later.)

    KRUGE: Well, my jolly lads, a few more triumphs like this and we'll all be back in prison.

    (then turning)

    Try to behave yourselves while I'm gone.


    I reckon Kruge probably should have had a Klingon parrot on his shoulder, too (but perhaps the lizard/dog from the REV. FINAL script ate it?).

    A major character difference is the addition of vulcanoid (Romulan?) defector, Galt, who essentially fills the role taken by Maltz the Klingon in the final film. Galt is welcomed back to Vulcan by Sarek at the end of the movie.

    Towards the end, instead of the REV. FINAL DRAFT and FINAL SHOOTING script version of Kirk saying to Kruge, "I... have had... enough... of you!" the FIRST DRAFT script has Kruge saying, "The last face you see, Kirk. The last face you ever see."

    He then grabs Kirk in a choke hold, they struggle, and Kirk seems doomed - but when the zombie-like Spock grabs Kruge from behind, Kirk is able to break free, retrieve. Kirk is able to reach the Klingon dagger and throw it into Kruge's back. Then he asks Galt to beam them up, abandoning several remaining Klingons to their fate on the doomed Genesis.

    Bennett also says "The writer suggests to the producer and director that no acting credit be given for the role of SPOCK until the END CREDITS. (And that's what they actually did. There's a blank space in the opening credits of ST III, where Nimoy's acting screen credit should normally be.)
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Fascinating (aside from that disquieting "dark race" thing). After DS9's "Blood Oath" aired, I concocted a theory that the smooth-headed TOS Klingons were a hybrid subspecies that gradually developed ridges as they aged, explaining why Kor, Koloth, and Kang had ridges in the 24th century. I never heard anyone else in fandom make a similar suggestion, so it's neat to see there was almost a canonical precedent for my idiosyncratic little hypothesis.
     
  19. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Vice Admiral Moderator

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    :lol: I have a hard time picturing Kruge (or any Klingon) using the phrase "my jolly lads"! :lol:
     
  20. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Moderator

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    Funny that I reposted that old script snippet on "Talk Like a Pirate Day", too.