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Old March 16 2014, 02:04 PM   #106
Shat Happens
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

and Worf would ask to be relieved of duty because GO 24 is not honorable

and in the Mirror Universe it's called General Order 48 because they shoot their planets twice.
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Old March 16 2014, 04:41 PM   #107
Anwar
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

It's also hard to get the audience to sympathize with guys who'd destroy entire civilizations just because of the actions of their leaders.
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Old March 16 2014, 07:14 PM   #108
Nightdiamond
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

I do not fire on defenseless people..
Picard. "Conudrum"

Picard would never do it, not even during a war. But he knows he has to live with himself afterwards.

It brings up the question of how the Federation conducts a war when specific targets are on an inhabited planet.

There are some shades of grey.


I think Captain Maxel might be capable of carrying out a G.O 24 if it was the Cardassians, and he thought he thought he was preventing a war that could cost millions of lives.

The keyword is "might" - he might have big problem with the concept, just like any other Starfleet captain, but when it involves someone like Cardassians, and he thought there was a huge threat...
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Old March 16 2014, 07:35 PM   #109
Jonas Grumby
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
Picard would never do it, not even during a war. But he knows he has to live with himself afterwards.
I'm sure the souls and loved ones of any Federation citizens who died because Picard couldn't bring himself to do his wartime duty would find comfort in knowing that he now has to live with himself.
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Old March 16 2014, 08:18 PM   #110
T'Girl
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
and Worf would ask to be relieved of duty because GO 24 is not honorable
Unless it was the Tribble homeworld.

(Or Romulas)



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Old March 16 2014, 11:42 PM   #111
PhoenixClass
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

Again, outside of extraordinary circumstances, I can't imagine Picard destroying all life on a planet. He did execute orders he did not agree with or like, like moving the Native Americans, but forcibly moving them is not as bad as killing everything on a planet. We have seen Picard disobey orders that he believed were morally indefensible. If he believed a general order 24 was not correct, he would not do it.
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Old March 17 2014, 02:13 AM   #112
Nightdiamond
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

Jonas Grumby wrote: View Post
I'm sure the souls and loved ones of any Federation citizens who died because Picard couldn't bring himself to do his wartime duty would find comfort in knowing that he now has to live with himself.
He also refused to unleash a virus that could have possibly destroyed the Borg - but then again he did speak with Hugh, the boy Borg, face to face and got to know him as an individual.

The Borg for a moment stopped being an evil group and appeared as actual people who had real lives previously.

PhoenixClass wrote: View Post
Again, outside of extraordinary circumstances, I can't imagine Picard destroying all life on a planet. He did execute orders he did not agree with or like, like moving the Native Americans, but forcibly moving them is not as bad as killing everything on a planet. We have seen Picard disobey orders that he believed were morally indefensible. If he believed a general order 24 was not correct, he would not do it.
But what would have to happen in order for him or (any Starfleet officer) to believe it was a correct order?

Sometimes, it can be hard to figure out some of these Starfleet captains.

Sisko refused to fire first on Jem Hadar soldiers approaching to attack his crew--later he got real angry at Kevan for forcing his hand into the whole thing.

So we know he is against mowing down combatants or civilians, even to save his own troops.

And yet before that he was about to unleash biological weapons on a Marquis colony.

We know Picard is against harming unarmed civilians in a conflict. He was against Captain Maxwell's decisions.

And yet, Picard suggested to Gowron to launch a bombardment of an enemy city on the Klingon planet.

Many types of shades of grey.
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Old March 17 2014, 04:03 AM   #113
T'Girl
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

PhoenixClass wrote: View Post
Again, outside of extraordinary circumstances ...
Pretty much follows that any use of GO-24 would be under very unusual circumstances.


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Old March 17 2014, 04:33 AM   #114
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
PhoenixClass wrote: View Post
Again, outside of extraordinary circumstances ...
Pretty much follows that any use of GO-24 would be under very unusual circumstances.


Yeah I don't really see Starfleet captains glassing entire inhabited planets without both a very good reason and no other alternative.
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Old March 17 2014, 04:42 AM   #115
PhoenixClass
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

Yes I think we are all agreed on that. I was only trying to be precise and to overcome the confusion that the term "General Order" brings to the discussion.
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Old March 17 2014, 04:44 AM   #116
Warped9
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

General Order 24 can still exist in the TNG era even if it isn't referred to.
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Old March 17 2014, 06:51 PM   #117
T'Girl
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

We don't (I think) hear of any general orders in TNG, general order one isn't referred to as such, only as "the prime directive."

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Old March 17 2014, 06:58 PM   #118
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
We don't (I think) hear of any general orders in TNG, general order one isn't referred to as such, only as "the prime directive."

Which could still be on the books as Starfleet General Order 1.
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Old March 21 2014, 11:26 AM   #119
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Does General Order 24 exist in TNG?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Shat Happens wrote: View Post
and Worf would ask to be relieved of duty because GO 24 is not honorable
Unless it was the Tribble homeworld.

(Or Romulas)



Worf was the first choice to fly the Jellyfish to Romulus and stop the supernova, but he found he mission dishonourable and asked to be relieved of duty.

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