Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by ZapBrannigan, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. Ghel

    Ghel Captain Captain

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    No interpersonal conflicts--I call shenanigans! As long as people live together, they will have interpersonal conflicts simply by virtue of their proximity to one another. Some people will have differing ideas regarding how to solve a problem, some people will come into a conflict over a "scarce" commodity (we both want the promotion, but only one of us can have it), and some people will just have personality conflicts.

    No Religion--no matter whether you are religious or not, it's hard to imagine that religious beliefs that have existed since humanity began (whether monotheistic, polytheistic, or other) that somehow, humanity will shed all religious belief in the next 200 - 300 years merely because we advance technologically. (This really only applies to TOS and TNG where religious people were relegated to "primitive" cultures)
     
  2. Belz...

    Belz... Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't have a problem with no religion, but not that soon. Plus, superstition will stay for quite a bit longer.
     
  3. Trek Survivor

    Trek Survivor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You do realise that almost all of these had nothing to do with Roddenberry (his 'worst ideas' are the topic of the thread)...
     
  4. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    To be fair, many of the issues brought up during the course of this tread can't be directly linked to Roddenberry, but rather to the group known as TPTB, Star Trek as a concept, and to the "expanded universe" that has been created by the fan base over time.

    :)
     
  5. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think that both will be here to stay for a long while. Belief is often remarkably impervious to logic and evidence, and "religion" or especially "spirituality" can be so broad and malleable that they can adapt themselves to whatever scientific discoveries or cultural changes will come.
     
  6. maneth

    maneth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I have no problem with superstitions and individual spiritual experiences (even belief in a supernatural being) will survive for as long as humanity survives. However, I do hope that Roddenberry's vision of no organized religion, with religious figures in positions of authority and religious principles as foundations for secular laws (except in cases where such principles transcend individual religions, as in "You shall not commit murder") will come to pass. In fact, such developments have been underway in the West (at least outside the US) since the mid-20th century if not earlier.
     
  7. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    organized religion at its simplest is just groups of like-minded people with similar beliefs coming together. I don't see how it disappears completely without the kind of oppression that wouldn't fit an optimistic future.


    But yes, organized religion stripped of its previous power and influence does seem like a reasonable extrapolation, since as you mentioned, that trend's already underway in a lot of places.
     
  8. TheGoodNews

    TheGoodNews Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    No just factual.
     
  9. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Commodore Commodore

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    Rodenberry's Trek basically says that humanity solved their major problems without religion whatsoever. It was all done by scientific discovery and hard work.

    Thanks to technology, there is no hunger, need or want, so people now work to better themselves and the rest of humanity... you have to admit, this plan does sound pretty practical for an advanced society.

    If anything, many episodes say that religion is the cause of the problems that humans tried so hard to get out of.

    But the downside to this, is that the materialism seems to leave (at least humans) empty. Notice how various spirituality and religious themes keep popping up.

    Whenever Picard, Sisko or other human characters are asked about what they believed in, they always gave a vague, awkward answer.

    They needed something to believe in.
     
  10. Lt. Cheka Wey

    Lt. Cheka Wey Commander

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    The Federation was neat enough for that purpose.
     
  11. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    up until Chakotay on Voyager, it seemed that while spirituality/faith was fine for non-Human characters(Worf, Kira, etc.) that Humans were generally without it, which is silly.
     
  12. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Picard was actually very articulate on the subject in Where Silence Has Lease. When Nagilum in the guise of Data asked Picard about his personal belief concerning death, Picard stated that he did think that the self survived the demise of the flesh.

    Picard believes our existence is beyond scientific understanding.

    TOS didn't seem to have any difficulty in this area, we saw some Human characters with overt sights of faith. Kirk with his "the one" statement made his position clear.

    The 24th century series do seem to have more of a problem with it's completely Human characters, and making clear where they stood on faith. Largely we don't know what they believe in, one way or the other.

    It was the half Human Deanna who seems to believe in fate (Pen Pals). On Voyager, when a story involved a character having a spiritual revelation (Barge of the Dead), it was the half Human Belanna and not one of her 100% Human shipmates.

    This is something I have a problem with. It's kind of like the planet with one people, one climate, one culture, one mode of dress. All of the the Federation, and all of Humanity, are not going to have the exact same position on faith, spirituality and organized religion. Some will be pro, some neutral, and some negative.

    Somewhere in the 150 plus mix of Member worlds of the Federation, there just might be a "planet Vatican."

    :)
     
  13. Jonas Grumby

    Jonas Grumby Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Be interesting to see William Ware Theiss's version of a nun's habit. ;)
     
  14. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Latex is alway nice.


    :)
     
  15. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Commodore Commodore

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    I thought his answer was somewhat limited and vague, as the most he could come up he felt there may be something more compared to what other people believed--that this is all there is.

    It kind of fit in with the materialist and scientific view that many humans and Starfleet officers tend to have had.

    When Sisko was asked if he had any gods or higher beliefs, he said, "....there are..things I believe in ..." as if caught in an awkward question.

    There seemed to be a lot of reluctance to embrace any higher concepts or religion among humans in Trek.

    This is something I have a problem with. It's kind of like the planet with one people, one climate, one culture, one mode of dress. All of the the Federation, and all of Humanity, are not going to have the exact same position on faith, spirituality and organized religion. Some will be pro, some neutral, and some negative.:)[/QUOTE]

    There is a certain logic to that though... if people are well fed, healthy, secure, no social problems, no needs or wants, they may not need to rely on religion answers as much anymore--at least that may be what Trek is saying.
     
  16. TheGoodNews

    TheGoodNews Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013