Marvel All New, All Different - Ongoing Discussion (Spoilers)

Maverick did spend a couple issues hunting Roberto for god and country, but yes, an almost newborn addition to the Marvel Universe.

Jonesy, Yoda is a teacher, he taught Luke how to use the force. Currently the Stark AI (being used to govern her armour, like a regular computer keeps a Car engine from over heating) is teaching Riri how to use her armour, fight bad guys and survive. Saying that Digital Tony is her Yoda, is another way of saying that he is her teacher.

Later, she's going to ask this AI if she should pull a sexy nerd who wants to go on a date at the library or a sexy bad boy who wants to drive motorcycles drunk, and I don't completely trust Stark to give her condonable advice.

There were 54 variant covers for US Avengers #1.

http://www.newsarama.com/31114-usavengers-1-variant-covers-assign-avengers-to-every-state.html#s17

I had to stop and ogle Valkyrie because I am disgusting, and they got Quasar wrong. They used classic Wendall, when there is a pretty lady where those Quantum Bands these days in the pages of Steve Rogers captain America.

Which might mean that the girl cast as Quasar currently is going to die reasonably soon?

 

So, Washington State gets Jocasta? Well, it could be worse. The Washington State Avengers Initiative team was terrible, with basically just one obscure hero shown (a member of Earth Force, we might not even have gotten all of Earth Force), and he was revealed to be a skrull imposter. I mean, at least DC sometimes gives Washington a hero in Seattle (I think Black Canary and/or Green Arrow spent time in Seattle).

 

Hulk turned out to be not so bad, quite good really.

Still a lawyer handling silly supervillain/hero cases.

The hook is that she has PTSD after getting pwned by Thanos, and sitting out the last Civil War in a coma.

 

That book might just be the most infuriating thing Marvel has done in awhile. She-Hulk does not become a violent Hulk unless she's brainwashed or otherwise manipulated. Mentally, she is the well adjusted hulk. The closest she came to not being well adjusted was when she first got her powers, and all that did was make her a jerk. She also mentally blocked her powers after some trauma for a bit (I think after the Scarlet Witch made her rip Vision in half during Avengers Dissassembled). But what they're doing now? Its just a Bruce Banner Hulk story with She-Hulk put in. I'd say this is the worst thing to come out of Civil War II.

Its the first She-Hulk comic I refuse to read or even glance at. She is my favorite Marvel hero, but I won't be giving that pile of garbage a second of my time. Hopefully its another book that gets cancelled quickly, and she quickly goes back to normal. Since this is Marvel and she's not an A-List her, I doubt her book would last more then 6 issues even if it wasn't terrible. Once its gone, it can be shoved into a deep, dark hole along with all the other terrible character things Marvel doesn't mention anymore (like that time Punisher became an Angel, or when Spider-Man got organic web shooters).

 

Jen doesn't turn into a rampaging monster. The PTSD triggers a gamma reaction that super-magnifies her own fear and loathing... I think?

She just had a snotty crying fit in her room, without destroying any walls, without showing us exactly what she looks like as a Gray Hulk... So there's yet to be any indicator (I avoid spoilers) that she's turning into a dummy like Bruce use-tah.

I'm dreading some hipster claiming how woke it is to call Jennifer just "Hulk".

Amadus is a queue jumping punk.

 

They're actually starting to reverse a bit of that-perhaps under pressure from upstairs (Perlmutter). FalconCap-which if you might remember had a backlash-is getting cancelled in March; and apparently Jane Thor will be replaced during the Summer, although that might just be synergy with the new film. They also seem to be putting a new emphasis on the X-men again....and we have this to thank for it.

 

Oh no sir, I meant that I think that Jennifer deserves to be called Hulk, she's earned it. A political movement didn't just hand her something, she didn't even realise that she had been working towards for the last 40 years, although it may have created an awareness that her codename is patriarchal, derivative and silly. (Double) Although... No one's actually canonized the name change yet.

The Man called Nova, Classic, is back and met the Champions, where he spent 40 seconds trying understand who the new Captain Marvel was, and what happened to Carol. Also he's not a fan of time displaced X-Men because it's complicatedly stupid.

Ooo.

Beast was exaggerating that there was a mutant apocalypse, when he first brought those kids forwards. Cyclops was being a dick and needed to be Christmas Carolled. Sweet? But now because of the Terrigen problem, it actually is mutantkinds final hours...

The Original X-Men are going to be sent back (all attempts to send them pastward earlier failed. I'm imagining that they couldn't return till they saw this, that is happening now. So maybe a future version of Beast from maybe a couple weeks from now, has always been the person time locking the Original X-Men.) to "kill" the inhuman Royal Family and skuttel their Terrigen surplus... And make sure that there are alternatives to stop the Thanos invasion during Infinity and stopgap any other Crisis the Inhumans were supposed to have saved the day on, as a matter of historical record.

 

Marvel will be dropping the political/social angle from it's comics and will be returning to more traditional heroics this year.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/02/06/marvels-big-plans-2017-never-mind-politics/

 

On the one hand, if true that's ridiculous and a bit cowardly. On the other hand, their really political books (The Champions, Hawkeye, Nazi Captain America) are all garbage, so I won't be sad to see them go.

It would be nice to go back a bit with the X-Men and stop making them near extinct then healing them then making them near extinction again. I like the X-Men best when the main point of the book isn't that mutants are near death. I like them being heroes. That said, the stuff about them being feared and hated by idiots is too big a thing to get rid of completely, but it would be nice for them to go back to being more about protecting the earth from evil mutants, aliens, etc and not just have them hiding away trying not to go extinct

Also, based on the article, I hope we get the real Thor back, Bruce Banner back as Hulk (while She-Hulk goes back to normal, hopefully), Tony Stark back as Iron Man and have Steve Rogers stop being a Nazi. I'm actually fine with two Captain America's, Sam Wilson isn't bad in the role, I just want to read about the original one being a hero and not a Nazi. As for Thor, Jane either has to die or give the hammer up, I don't really care which at this point (plus Aaron needs to leave Thor and never touch it again, which would hopefully happen if they're bringing the actual Thor back). As for Iron Mann, both Doom and random 14 year old are terrible replacements for Tony, especially since his last book was basically the best run he'd had since Civil War I, so if they're trying to take the comics back to basics hopefully he'll be back.

 

You have to remember that the writers and editors at Marvel have approached these topics with a degree of immaturity. The things you mentioned, but also turning Cyclops into a terrorist. While Bendis and later Lemire, were trying to ride the line between terrorist and "freedom fighter". Cyclops is an outright villain, and everyone hates his guts. Mockingbird , Ms Marvel (Kamala), Jane Thor + Angela (and their obvious feminist/SJW angle), the multiple relaunches of Carol Danvers' books since 2012 (to make her "happen" with audiences), Asian Hulk, Nazi Captain America and others.

Marvel has seen their sales decline in recent years, in a time when the MCU is the most popular franchise on the planet. People, especially long term fans weren't buying the books. And the people Marvel hoped would spend money on their books; the hipster, indie, counter culture crowd, weren't buying. Which led to a lot of cancellations and low sales. Marvel even hired a bunch of independent, Image and Valiant artists and writers to appeal to the aforementioned crowd, and no dice.

Meanwhile, DC's books have been doing great with fans and sales. Even though their movies aren't as liked as Marvel's. Then again, Marvel's books cost a dollar more, and Marvel would ship out more books than DC. Which would mean they were taking a loss for oversupplying retailers.

 

To be fair, I enjoyed Mockingbird a lot, and Totally Awesome Hulk is fairly decent (although the last few issues have been pretty weak). Captain Marvel has fluctuated, but I don't think "political" stuff has screwed with her books, mediocre writing did (like erasing all her memories for no reason, then basically pretending that didn't happen because they don't want to reset her personal relationships and they probably realized that was a bizarre, moronic idea).

I'll admit upfront that I'm not against comics dealing with political stuff, I don't support the idea that comics should stay out of that area. Mockingbird, for example, was a quality comic and deserved to last a lot longer. But, I think Marvel doesn't have a great track record with it, doing it poorly about half the time. A better writer could have made me not hate Jane Foster as Thor (especially if they had thought through the whole "Thor is unworthy" angle, and had realized that Thor is a name, not a title). Ms. Marvel I don't read, but its because I find her fan girl personality annoying, not because of political reasons. That book actually seems like the perfect place to bring up that stuff, since Ms. Marvel's race/religion is an integral part of that book from what I've seen. Captain America was just stupid. I barely count it as being political so much as just a horrible gimmick story. Cap has a history of being a patriot but calling the county out on its BS, he's even tossed his costume a few times because of that and it made for good stories. But Cap as a Nazi just felt like a stupid "shock" story, and really didn't need to be done.

Hawkeye and The Champions are just badly done, probably the worst of the "political" books. I'm not even necessarily against whatever issues they talk about (I only read a bit of Hawkeye and know Champions mpore by reputation and reviews), but they took to their topics with a sledgehammer and baseing a comic all on political stuff, instead of just using it as an element sometimes, was probably a bad move. Plus, Hawkeye had the disadvantage of becoming a cold blooded murderer, so its hard to make him a character someone wants to read about right now anyway.

In the end, I hope they don't mess with stuff like Ms. Marvel too much, and I'd like to still get stuff like Mockingbird. Nothing wrong with a feminist hero, and I find the idea that there is such a thing as an "sjw" angle ridiculous (along with the term itself). I just want that in addition to some good stories, and maybe ease up on some of the bizarre grimness that's infiltrated the Marvel books of the past few years (its a different type of grimness then DC had, but its gotten out of hand even though a lot of books are still good). A better balance is what Marvel needs, with a bit of a return to some brighter stories and heroes being heroes in all kinds of ways. Basically, they need to look at DC's Rebirth, but not necessarily copy it. They shouldn't avoid hard topics, but they don't need to make Cap a Nazi, take the X-Men from heroes to survivors on the brink of extinction or replace all the old Avengers to do that.

 

Hopefully, this make the MU a little more of a recognizable place. I have no problem with Sam/Cap, Jane/Thor, Iron Riri or Iron Doom, Cho-Hulk, Nadia-Wasp or even Nazi-Cap in general. They may not all be stories I want to read, but not every book is for everybody anyway. But all of them at once? No thanks.

And a little socio-political commentary is fine. I hope that the X-Men still fight for equality and that a hopefully restored Steve Rogers will still fight for the American Dream. Marvel took things a little too far.

 

With Marvel, the politics, just like their never ending series of event comics and crossovers, were mainly done for publicity stunts, I feel. Things to keep Marvel's name/brand trending. Rather than put out good stories that didn't rely on gimmicks.

Kamala and Miles are safe. They're big IPs now. Things like Jane Thor, Cho Hulk, Captain Nazi, Ultron Hank Pym are likely getting reversed this year. Wolverine's death is being reversed this year as well. I don't expect the FF will return and thanks to Bendis, the GOTG are now based on Earth. They should drop Carol, and bring back Mar-Vell.

 

I agree, especially about the X-men still fighting for equality, etc. Honestly, I'd like it if they kept both Steve and Sam as Cap, and kept X-23 as Wolverine and kept Nadia as Wasp but got rid of the rest. The big problem was basically getting rid of all the big Avengers at once, and not doing a good job with all of the replacements or the replaced heroes themselves.

I don't agree about Carol. She's always been more compelling then Mar-Vell. Really, Mar-Vell was a lame character made to steal a copyright/trademark from DC, and he never really evolved past that. Genis-Vell was a much more interesting and developed character as Captain Marvel (mostly because Peter David is awesome), and Carol Danvers is a very good character who has just had a bit of a rought time as Cap, but she still deserves the title in my opinion, especially if the alternative is bringing back a bore like Mar-Vell. Personally, I think that Mar-Vell succeeded just because he lead to Carol Danvers and Genis-Vell. but, he served whatever purpose he had long ago. They just need a better writer with Carol, and to not do things like make her a nutjob (Civil War II did nothing good for her character).

As for Wolverine, as much as I like Logan, X-23 as Wolverine has the best "Wolverine" solo book I've ever read. I want Logan back eventually, but I'd keep him dead a bit longer if it kept X-23 as Wolverine.

 

Wow, I actually agree with a lot of this.
Now, I haven't read any of these books so I can't comment on their quality, but the recent decision making at Marvel has kind of baffled me. Right now Tony Stark as Iron Man, Odinson Thor, and Bruce Banner Hulk are probably bigger household names than ever be for, so I was a little baffled when they started replacing them all with B or C-list characters. I don't think there's a problem with the idea of those characters taking over the superhero identities, but I do think making them the main hero was a very strange thing to do right now. They should have made them alternate or secondary versions of those heroes, not the primary ones. A lot of the hardcore fans might know what's going on with the books, but if someone who only knows the characters from the movies picks up an Iron Man book they're going to expect it to be Tony Stark, not some newly created teenage girl. Some of these characters do seem to have their fans, so I think rather than just taking the names away and they should just have the new characters share the name or at least the role with the originals. So give us Doom, Tony, and Riri as Iron Men, and give Odinson back Mjorlnir, but also give Jane her own hammer so she can keep her powers. This was the people who want to traditional hero can get them, but the new character's fans don't lose them.
As for them backing away from the political stories, that actually seems like a mistake to me, I think we're reaching a place now where it's more important for media to be telling those kinds of stories. If people haven't been liking the way they've been handling the issues, then I think they should just reevaluate the handling rather than just not dealing with the issues.

 

Yeah, having multiple characters with the same name has been a Marvel and DC thing for a long time. But, Marvel just got weird about it awhile ago. Thor should be the easiest, because two other heroes (Thunderstrike and beta Ray Bill) both started out as people who used Mjolnir, but then Thor got it back while they got different hammers. There have been two Captain America's before, Bucky stayed Cap for awhile after steve came back from the dead. There are currently two Hawkeyes, not to mention the time traveling X-Men causing there to be two versions of Angel and beast right now.

It almost feels like they were feeling a bit resentful of the movies, so they purposefully tried to go as far away from them as they reasonably could. Don't get me wrong, the comics shouldn't really copy the movies, but they keep making bad decisions that seem to only really happen just to make them different.

Another big problem is that Marvel will not allow the comics to have a solid status quo. When you have a big world altering event every six months, people stop being able to keep track of things unless they're huge comic nerds. I know events sell, but I think they could raise sales in general if they could just go a year or two without some world altering event. I mean, they could still crossover books, but keep the world in general consistent for awhile and stop blowing it up or having big groups of heroes fight other groups of heroes. Just do some solid story telling without trying to find a way to sell a billion tie in issues to the next "big event".

As for political stuff, I think they shouldn't shy away from it if they're doing it well. But, they seemed to just jump into it without a solid story a lot of the time. I don't think many people particularly cared to see a bunch of teen heroes go fight specifically about political things, which is why The Champions is just bad. But, people might have cared if the same heroes had just formed a superhero team and then sometimes had to deal with that stuff, without making it THE focus of the book. The X-Men have had a lot of interesting things about how mutants were treated, but they usually mixed that in with fighting supervillains/ailiens/etc and just having adventures and interesting stories. I think something like that is what Marvel should try to do.

Also, if they could stop stupid shock stories that inherently ruin what people like about a character (Captain America being a Nazi, Captain Marvel locking people up for doing nothing, Hawkeye murdering people in cold blood), that would probably help a lot.

 

So with the whole Steve Rogers is a Nazi thing, did they actually change history so he was a Nazi, or was it just brainwashing to make him think he was a Nazi? I know it involved some kind of Cosmic Cube in human form, but I've only read about it online so I was sure if she changed all of reality or just Steve's memory of it.
Did any of you guys read Nighthawk? From what I gather that was a very, very political book and while it was canceled, I got the impression that most of the people who were reading it liked it. What about Occupy Avengers?

 

History was changed by Kobik and the request of the Red Skull. Cap's Hydra, not a straight up Nazi. They're playing it as a faction of Hydra wasn't totally on board with the Red Skull and the Nazis,

I read Nighthawk, there was a definite political slant to the book.
Nighthawk was in the latest issue of Occupy Avengers. Not sure if he's joining on a permanent basis.

 

HE'S BACK!!!!!

Spoiler: Invincible Iron Man Spoilers

Reed Richards is back, and I think he's boffing Cynthia Von Doom, which is the ultimate revenge really, mother####ing. It also makes the phrase "Who's your daddy?" SOOOO much more embarrassing to your nemesis.

Victor Von Doom's mother. Cynthia. I couldn't make this more clearer.