TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by TheGodBen, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. Thor Damar

    Thor Damar Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thor Damar, God of thunder and monologue..
    My favorite bit in that episode is when all that The Sisko can muster upon Dukat's righteous destruction of a Klingon Bird of prey is a weary 'did you really have to do that?' as if he's simply resigned to such casual brutality.

    Plus Damar sniggering at the crew in their Klingon get up and his 'helpful' suggestion.
     
  2. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    I liked how The Ship actually made redshirt deaths seem important for once. The only other Trek show I can remember who did that was Enterprise during the late Xindi arc. I also liked Kilana, it's a shame we only saw her in this episode. She's no Weyoun, but after him certainly my favourite Vorta.
     
  3. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't find it too surprising that upon the death of one of their gods, caused by their own failure (from their POV) the Jem'hadar would commit suicide rather than going berserk.
     
  4. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I also had a problem with "The Ship" missing the ugly, low-tech possible solution to the bleeding. IF done right--and that's a big if--the wound could have been sealed by cauterizing it. Nasty as hell, and would probably have to be done off-screen given how graphic it would be, but that would have at least been a temporary fix (as long as he was not moved and incurred NO more injuries, even a scrape) until he could be removed from the battlefield to a sickbay that could try to treat the poison.
     
  5. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hm. I don't recall how well-equipped they were at the time, and now I'm wondering whether a phaser can be used to cauterize, or whether it would likely do more harm than good.
     
  6. BennyRussel

    BennyRussel Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree 100%. Worf was a trained, experienced Starfleet officer who was raised by human foster parents. It is ridiculous that he would be so crass about the dying crewman. Even if he felt that way, he would have known enough to keep his own counsel.

    I wish O'Brien would have cold-cocked him. (Of course, Worf would have snapped his neck, but it would have been worth it.)
     
  7. SilentP

    SilentP Commodore Commodore

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    Thinking of experience with dealing with casualties and the general horrors of combat, it's funny how out of the command crew of DS9, O'Brien is considered the combat veteran over Worf.
     
  8. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Stupid Sexy Flanders! Premium Member

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    Well Worf talks the talk, clearly, as opposed to ever doing any actual fighting. Honour this and honour that- my foot! :mad:

    In TNG he was clearly shown to be weaker than just about everything in existence. ;)

    Of course the writers used him as a crutch quite often. Whichever new enemy would turn up and kick him into next week to show how strong they were.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  9. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would say it's more that while Worf has combat experience, it's more the kind of work that Security typically handles in Trek episodes. O'Brien actually served during a war and saw combat on a much larger scale.
     
  10. DS9 Gal AZ

    DS9 Gal AZ Captain Captain

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    Yeah, I liked Kilana. Yeah, I know, she's best known for introducing us to Vorta cleavage, but the actress was good and the character was interesting for a one-off, would've enjoyed seeing more of her ... erm ... that came out wrong ... you know what I mean.

    Fun fact, she was originally going to be Eris (the first Vorta we met at the end of Season 2). This was the second time they tried to bring Eris back, but once again the actress was unavailable.
     
  11. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Agreed. Worf holds the Klingon warrior tradition in high esteem, but in the sense of practicing a religion. He participates in ritual (various competitions, etc) and through training keeps himself in shape in accordance with the way of the warrior. That's not the same as actually having lived the warrior's life the way Klingons like Kor or Martok have. It makes him proficient with weapons and very good in a fight, but "warrior" is still an ideal for him; an aspect of identity, not a job description.

    Worf's a security man who happens to live by a tradition that promotes physical prowess and combat. O'Brien, meanwhile, was an actual soldier and saw action in disputed territories, on the ground. He may be about 1/10th as martial in terms of his outlooks and interests, and he obviously couldn't compare to Worf in terms of weapons proficiency or physical contests, but in terms of the realities of combat outside of ritualized tradition (well, to the extent that warfare isn't always ritualized tradition, but that's another matter...), I'd bet on O'Brien. Worf is often detatched from realities of non-"honourable" combat, perhaps especially emotional realities. He doesn't see combat and death primarily in terms of the people affected, he sees them as an abstract idealized frame of reference for his personal belief system.

    On a related note, in terms of experience, I'd think O'Brien was more useful on that front than Worf any day, precisely because O'Brien cares nothing for combat but has still engaged in it. Who would you rather trust in, the person whose perceptions are welded to a preconceived and often idealized idea of how combat works, along with a long list of culturally-approved descriptors designed to warp the experience into butressing a ideological framework defining his people, or the guy who had no interest in combat beforehand (or afterward), and simply found himself engaging in it at one point in his career, doing the best he could, and who can share his personal experience without anything at stake for him beyond the act of advising? ;)
     
  12. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    Well, Worf did serve during the Klingon Civil War that lasted three months or so (IIRC).
     
  13. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Good point. :) I for one forget about that (mostly because it was a rather rushed affair and isn't mentioned by Worf very often)...
     
  14. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Looking for par'Mach in All the Wrong Places (****½)

    What is love? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more.

    [yt]v=Bs8Jfh3DSTU[/yt]

    [​IMG]

    Okay, so this isn't really a romance-of-the-week episode, I've just been itching to post that video ever since I found it. And aren't you glad I shared? ;) This is kinda more of a I-want-to-have-sex-of-the-week episode, which is very normal for most people but a departure from the format for post-Kirk Trek. Worf is sexually attracted to Grilka and in his desire to be a good Klingon he mistakes his feelings for par'Mach and attempts to get into her armour. Meanwhile, Quark also wants to get into her armour and pretends it's par'Mach to do so. For a comedy episode, this is far more grounded in actual human behaviour than normal romace episodes.

    What can I say other than that this episode episode is a joy to watch? It's whimsical, has some good gags, and actually contains some meaningful character material for Worf. I found myself grinning through most of the episode, which is an unusual change from the scowl I attempt to maintain while judging television shows. Some of the scenes may have been a little too rich in comedy goodness, but I'm willing to give it a pass.

    Meanwhile, Miles and Kira are in their quarters one night, making out with each other. As things start to get more intense, Miles begins to take off Kira's uniform. Kira smiles warmly, and says "We should have done this a long time ago." Miles leans over and nuzzles Kira playfully. "I agree," he says, "but let's not tell Keiko."

    Then they had sex right on the couch.

    Or something like that.
     
  15. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    It was a brilliant episode, a very worthy sequel to the equally excellent House of Quark. I thought the scene with Quark fighting using the control thingie with Worf was brilliant, only at the end did I remember no-one was actually being controlled; Armin Shimerman was just acting his ass off. I also liked the old Klingon quite a lot, and how, when Worf was trying to woo Grilka, he didn't go the standard shouty Klingon "DISHONOURABLE DOG, FIGHT ME TO THE DEATH!!!!" thing, but just took Worf aside and explained she was not interested like a normal person. And Worf and Jadzia playing Cyrano for Quark... Well, overall this episode was just a delight.
     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I laughed so hard at Quark's expression after Worf broke the transmitter. :lol:
     
  17. Worf'sParmach

    Worf'sParmach Commander Red Shirt

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    I literally LOL'ed at "his... eccentricities." Sisko makes a better Klingon than Worf.

    Agreed.

    This gets touched on very briefly in "Let He Who is Without Sin" )or as I prefer to call is "That Episode We Do Not Speak Of"). Worf is kind of a textbook Klingon who has all these ideals but has never lived with Klingons aside from a few months here or there. He acts all "tough Klingon" but what does he really know? When push comes to shove, he'd much rather have a glass of prune juice than anything else.

    Also agree on how fun "Par'mach" was. I even liked the O'Brien/Kira thing, it was a bold yet realistic direction for them to explore. It sucks that the follow up to it ("That Episode We Do Not Speak Of") was so craptastic.
     
  18. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Looking for... Wrong Places is probably one of DS9's most funny episodes! I could say more but I'm down with one nasty cold. Though I would like to say shame on O'Brien for even thinking about making out with Kira! But he can be included with the few men to see Kira naked: Bareil, Shakaar, plus Odo of course.
     
  19. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    Hehe, I had forgotten about the O'Brien/Kira subplot. I loved that, especially the moment when they suddenly both realised what was happening, as well as how mean Odo was when talking to Kira (Who'd ever have guessed he'd act like that to her? It left me wondering whether Quark or Julian was on the other side of that table for a moment).
     
  20. BennyRussel

    BennyRussel Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't know about that. I'm sure Kira had to use her sex appeal on more than one occasion in the name of the resistance. We already know she likely had an affair with a Bajoran collaborator (in order to get close enough to kill him.)

    She was also smart enough to send some horny Cardassian hoodlums to their doom with their pants around their ankles.

    I would say Bareil, Shakaar, Odo and O'Brien are the only men to see Kira naked ... and live to talk about it.