I totally missed that! Good eye! Was that just a coincidence? Is there any other reason that Episode 15 could be called Us? Perhaps there is a double meaning!
Makes sense. I admit that I jumped some pages in this thread. Can't believe I didn't get that at the end.
FWIW, Didn't Joe say (something along the lines of) "Do you think Terminus is going to accept people like us?"
As for being corralled it's likely as they were realizing it either didn't have much choice on where to go to find safety or didn't trust the fact that the non-lethal fire wouldn't become lethal should they do something "wrong enough."
But in a rigged situation, you are better off breaking out of the predictable path in some way, unless it was just their intent to play along & let themselves be captured for safety's sake, and mount a better attempt down the line. Truthfully though, they may have never had a more worthwhile advantage than being out & unpredictable. The forces that penned them in were not overly formidable numbers. Get them off their program & you have a shot at breaking their team into factions that are unprepared This is why I said it's almost as dumb. They were plenty dumber in that episode before it got to that anyhow
Maybe they did run into Tyreese and Carol, but, then again, do you trust the cavalry with saving you and protecting your infant daughter? Or to a teenager and the person(s) who kidnapped her? Or the crazy/still grieving father who blames you for his son's death? And, while you put your trust in one of those choices, do you take your (arguably) two best fighters with you, instead of leaving one or both of them to bust you out? Not to mention, we're all sitting her armchair quarterbacking what they should have done forgetting these are wounded (Daryl and Rick), hungry people, who probably haven't been sleeping well, either. Everyone who's ever studied decision making will tell you any one of those three things will mess up your judgment. All of them? It's amazing these people are functioning as well as they are.
The reason 4x15 was called "Us" was from Joe and Daryl's conversation. Joe : So what's the plan, Daryl? Daryl: How so? Joe: You're with us now, but you ain't soon? Daryl: Yep. Joe: So what's the plan? Daryl: Just looking for the right place is all. Joe: Oh, we ain't good enough for you, huh? Daryl: Some of you ain't exactly friendly. Joe: You ain't so friendly yourself. You know you need a group out here. Daryl: Maybe I don't. Joe: No, you do. You should be with us. Daryl: Hey. There ain't no us. Joe: You leaving right now? No? Then it sure seems like there's an us.
Well, most of the others we've seen so far have only learned the necessity of war (Joe and the Claimed Gang, Tomas and his prisoners, Randall's gang, the Governor's immediate cronies, Merle, Morgan, etc.) or they've only learned the value of peace (the Greenes before Rick arrived, the Milton and the civilians at Woodbury, the Chambler family, the civilians in Martinez' camp, etc.). Rick and his group have managed to survive long enough learn the value of both peace and war. I'd say that makes them more dangerous than average because they're smarter than the "kill 'em take their stuff" predators, they're tougher than the "just leave us alone!" civilians, and they're wise enough to know a higher standard of behavior. While that doesn't sound like much, they won't raid others and so on, which means they won't make nearly as many enemies as those who do. The only other group who probably had the potential for that was the Vatos, but they apparently didn't last long enough. You know, I recognized what the Terminus was doing (although I didn't hear Rick say it) ... but I still didn't make the connection with the rabbit trap. I did see the pile of bones, and I'm pretty sure the characters didn't. True, but I think the Governor and Bob have him tied. No, but the moonshine might! I think Rick's given up on that, considering how many times Carl has disobeyed. And THAT is how Daryl should have resolved it. Would have been a lot simpler and less painful. I didn't hear anyone call "claimed" on the three prisoners!
Agreed, Rick saw the pile of human skeletons bones spread on a blue tarp. It made me think of the scene from the 1960 Time Machine.
In Morgan's case, increasingly tough times sometimes demand strange bedfellows. If Carol and Tyreese arrived, but also ran into Beth, it only takes one to watch Judith, while the others make their move. Well, something has Rick making his confident statement. He does not have hidden weapons (unless as a police officer, he knew how to hide it from an amateur pat down). Rational ideas. Rick's group are the ZA balance, only going off in a "fringe" direction when absolutely necessary (Rick biting Joe's neck, the initial, pacifistic plan to release Randall, despite the danger he posed if he reunited with his allies, etc.). Maybe that--barring overwhelming circumstances--is what gives them the edge: other groups only operate in extremes of violence, threats or barbarity. As seen with Tomas, Randall's bar friends or Woodbury--barbarity only opened the floodgates of self destruction.
Wow, I have to strongly disagree with everybody that's suggesting that Rick has some backup waiting outside for them. That ruins that entire scene. The whole point of that last line, full of confidence, is that Rick finally accepted who he is and what he has to do to survive. He looks inward at himself, and then he looks at all the asskickers standing there in the traincar with him, and he knows for an absolute fact that they will get out of this!
That's my take on it, too. The episode began with a no-win situation-- ruthless barbarians had guns to their heads and no interest in negotiating. But they got out of it. Just like the conversation about hunger and the demonstration of the trap foreshadowed the cannibals, that scene foreshadowed the ending. Carl asked who they are, and that's who they are-- the survivors.
I kind of see it that way too now. Clearly the ultimate way to live is to be open to living every way, as conditions require. We are now into yet another group who think they have the best way to live figured out & are sticking to it. That is a disadvantage, assuming one way to live is all you need to do, the way Woodbury did, or the way they thought at the prison. People who think they got it figured out are destined to be ruined eventually That's what Rick's final words meant. What all their experiences add up to makes them rather profoundly tenacious, and that is this. Of all the groups or gangs we've seen in 4 seasons, the trait that none of them have more so than Rick's current band, is adaptability. Evolution is just continuing to adapt to accept preferred or necessary advantages
I'm thinking they could loosely adapt a scene from the comics and have Rick & Co. brutally slaughter everyone in the camp in just a matter of minutes.
All true. But I would add: it's more than just being adaptable. It appears the Terminus folks have made adaptations that have worked quite nicely, and it's going to backfire on them anyway. And really, I'd say Michonne did a good job of adapting before she met Andrea, but she also lost herself in the process. I'd repeat that Rick's group is unique because they hold to a higher standard (or at least remain moderate) while still being willing to adapt. Like TREK_GOD_1 said, they're capable of going off in a "fringe" direction when necessary, but only then. What it adds up to is that Rick's group wasn't adaptable until they learned it the hard way. They've had a lot of costly lessons, but they did learn. It could be argued that Joe's group was extremely adaptable as well ... but they learned nothing. The "learning" aspect and the "peace vs. war" aspect I mentioned earlier could almost be broken down into seasons. In Season 1 they were just plain learning about their situation. In Season 2 they tried to practice peace on the farm. They learned some hard lessons from that. Fortunately, they managed to survive the lessons. In Season 3 they practiced, if not war, then significant hostility. We had the return of the Ricktatorship, the kick-ass raid to clean out the prison, Rick's suspicion of Tyrese's group which led to kicking them out, raiding Woodbury, and almost turning over Michonne. Michonne trying to practice her survival-hostility and seeing what was likely to happen if she kept it up. Daryl trying to go back to his old ways with his brother and discovering that he couldn't. Eventually they (or at least Rick, Michonne, and Daryl) learned the futility of much of that. Again, fortunately they managed to survive the lessons. Finally, Season 4 was about integrating both war and peace, and practicing both moderation and adaptability. That's where they are now. In the future surviving their lessons won't happen just because they're fortunate, but because, as you say, they've evolved.
Not related to this discussion, but I finally started reading the comics for the first time and I gotta say... I find the storytelling and character work in the TV series to be far richer and more interesting than what was done in the comic (whether it's making Hershel a more religious father-figure type or keeping Shane around a lot longer). And I also far prefer the more minimalistic dialogue of the series as well. The comic has SO much freakin talking going on, with the characters constantly explaining how they feel about everything, that it kinda gets in the way of the suspense at times. The greater use of silence on the series is a fantastic choice that I'm really glad they made. That said, it's still a very fun read and fascinating to see all the subtle differences between the two. I'm only up to issue 14 so far, so I have yet to see what the comic's version of the Governor is like...
I think you're misremembering or misinterpreting that scene. Rick was full crazy then, and he was shouting at Lori's ghost to get out of his head. Everyone else just assumed that he meant he wanted Tyrese to leave.
I agree. I think that's more satisfying dramatically, too. It also answers Carls' question from earlier in the episode about what kind of people they are. I like it; it works for me!