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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old April 4 2014, 02:47 AM   #196
Sran
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Re: Nicholas Meyer's Interpretation of Star Trek

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
When a lawyer becomes your only real friend, you're in big trouble.
Roddenberry had no friends left in large part because he believed he was Star Trek rather than actors and actresses who brought the show to life. That he kept pimping his ridiculous JFK movie idea didn't help his cause.

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Old April 5 2014, 03:30 AM   #197
LMFAOschwarz
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Re: Nicholas Meyer's Interpretation of Star Trek

I distinctly remember reading once upon a time (around the time of its release, actually) that Meyer's original title for Star Trek II was Star Trek II: The Undiscovered Country. Little short on ideas, Nicholas?

Man, some people just never can let an idea go.
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Old April 5 2014, 03:55 AM   #198
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Re: Nicholas Meyer's Interpretation of Star Trek

Putting Khan's name right upfront made a hell of a lot of sense under the circumstances, especially for anyone who was worried that the film might be uncomfortably similar to TMP.

I have no problem with the title being used for VI; I thought it fit well there.
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Old April 5 2014, 04:09 AM   #199
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Re: Nicholas Meyer's Interpretation of Star Trek

DonIago wrote: View Post
I have no problem with the title being used for VI; I thought it fit well there.
Oh, I didn't either, I didn't mean to come across that way. It's just that I'd think a director (or any creative person) would have more than one arrow in his quiver.
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Old April 5 2014, 05:56 PM   #200
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Re: Nicholas Meyer's Interpretation of Star Trek

DonIago wrote: View Post
Putting Khan's name right upfront made a hell of a lot of sense under the circumstances, especially for anyone who was worried that the film might be uncomfortably similar to TMP.

I have no problem with the title being used for VI; I thought it fit well there.
But it really doesn't. In the quote from Hamlet that the title comes from:

Bill Shakespeare wrote:
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered Country, from whose bourn
No Traveler returns, Puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we know not of.
The undiscovered country is death and/or the afterlife, which fits TWOK, with its themes of growing old and aging. To make it fit in TUC they had the clumbsy line equating it with "the future," which can work, but its not really what the original line means.
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Old April 5 2014, 06:17 PM   #201
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Re: Nicholas Meyer's Interpretation of Star Trek

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
The undiscovered country is death and/or the afterlife, which fits TWOK, with its themes of growing old and aging. To make it fit in TUC they had the clumbsy line equating it with "the future," which can work, but its not really what the original line means.
I thought it was a better use of the line because of the original meaning and the connotations which go with it. In Hamlet, the idea is that no matter how horrible and full of suffering life is, the fear of the unknown after death keeps people living in that suffering. Similarly, no matter how horrible a situation the present, better to keep things the way you're used to than to journey headlong into a future you nothing about and can't control.
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Old April 6 2014, 12:43 AM   #202
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Re: Nicholas Meyer's Interpretation of Star Trek

Isn't this basically lampshaded in the film itself? ETA - I might be thinking of the novelization.
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Old April 6 2014, 12:58 AM   #203
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Re: Nicholas Meyer's Interpretation of Star Trek

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
I have no problem with the title being used for VI; I thought it fit well there.
Oh, I didn't either, I didn't mean to come across that way. It's just that I'd think a director (or any creative person) would have more than one arrow in his quiver.
And Meyer did. He didn't title any of his non-Trek movies "The Undiscovered Country" after all. But do creative people hang onto rejected ideas and recycle them if they get a chance? Sure. Waste not, want not.

Hell, I once sold a rejected Voyager pitch to Farscape. And my Terminator novel is loosely based on a Firefly proposal that never sold.

I have files full of character names and titles and plot gimmicks that aren't attached to specific projects yet. I'll find a use for them some day . . ..
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Old April 6 2014, 01:08 AM   #204
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Re: Nicholas Meyer's Interpretation of Star Trek

Greg - Which episode? I'm just getting into Farscape.
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Old April 6 2014, 01:11 AM   #205
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Re: Nicholas Meyer's Interpretation of Star Trek

DonIago wrote: View Post
Greg - Which episode? I'm just getting into Farscape.
Not an episode, alas. I wrote some FS short stories for the official FARSCAPE magazine back in the day. (I also co-edited the novels.)

But, yeah, I turned a rejected Voyager pitch about Seven of Nine into short story about Aeryn Sun . . . which was easier than you might think!
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Old April 6 2014, 02:03 AM   #206
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Re: Nicholas Meyer's Interpretation of Star Trek

DonIago wrote: View Post
Isn't this basically lampshaded in the film itself? ETA - I might be thinking of the novelization.
The novelization addressed it more fully; I don't know if that is Dillard or just more of the scene as originally conceived.
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Old April 6 2014, 02:17 AM   #207
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Re: Nicholas Meyer's Interpretation of Star Trek

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
I have no problem with the title being used for VI; I thought it fit well there.
Oh, I didn't either, I didn't mean to come across that way. It's just that I'd think a director (or any creative person) would have more than one arrow in his quiver.
And Meyer did. He didn't title any of his non-Trek movies "The Undiscovered Country" after all. But do creative people hang onto rejected ideas and recycle them if they get a chance? Sure. Waste not, want not.

Hell, I once sold a rejected Voyager pitch to Farscape. And my Terminator novel is loosely based on a Firefly proposal that never sold.

I have files full of character names and titles and plot gimmicks that aren't attached to specific projects yet. I'll find a use for them some day . . ..
I definitely see where you're coming from, Mr. C. My views could be colored from my comic book days (granted, not exactly high literature ), where the general idea was that a good Captain America story is not necessarily a good Spider-Man story. Admittedly, this is more theory than practice, in my experience!

I'd just hate for story elements to become so plug-and-play that a rejected idea of, say, "Let's make the long-lost brother turn out to be really a robot" turns up in another book as "Let's make the long-lost army buddy turn out to be really a robot".

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this. That's why I'm not a writer, I guess.

(Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe it's the recycled Saavik character of Valeris that bothered me more than I realized...)
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Old April 6 2014, 02:17 AM   #208
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Re: Nicholas Meyer's Interpretation of Star Trek

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
I distinctly remember reading once upon a time (around the time of its release, actually) that Meyer's original title for Star Trek II was Star Trek II: The Undiscovered Country. Little short on ideas, Nicholas?

Man, some people just never can let an idea go.
If something sounds good and appropriate, hell yeah hang onto it. I came up with the title CRITICAL ORBIT when I was 15 and trying to make a medium sized space movie in Super8. A couple years later, when Disney was publicly seeking alternative titles to THE BLACK HOLE, I sent CRITICAL ORBIT to them (I still think they should have used it.)

I made a totally different Space film in the early 80s called CRITICAL ORBIT, but a cast member died and another disappeared so I couldn't finish it. In the LATE 80s I rewrote it as a full-length script, similar universe but with way too much Heinlein-esque practicalmindedness.

When I pitched to TNG at the end of 1990 one of my pitches (which still had a morsel from the early 80s version in it) was also CRITICAL ORBIT.

Then in the early 90s I made it very very different, about themes and 'tudes that really interested me, first as a feature script and then as a whole series of story ideas for CRITICAL ORBIT as a TV series, called CRITICAL ORBITS. (this is around the time I noticed that Kirk actually uses the phrase 'critical orbit' in THE NAKED TIME, which kind of took the wind out of my sails for a bit.)

I still mess with those early 90s versions from time to time ... it really REALLY seems like FIREFLY, but with slightly less vivid characters and much much better science. Had a general outline for whole series, one that would have had a clever little thing ... various guest stars would be filmed seated in something like a Capt's chair in a bit that didn't go into the episode. For the last episode, when things have changed enormously for the characters and they aren't privateers anymore, you were going to see a huge fleet of ships deploying for an extended mission, and see that leftover extra shot for each of these guest stars, who were each commanding one of the ships in this fleet, which is ... man, I gotta sit down and reread all this, I'm getting jazzed thinking about it.

(Now that I wrote that out, I'm wondering if the title is what has jinxed these projects. Had the same name for the main character throughout all this too, except for the early 80s version.)
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