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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

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View Poll Results: Grading
A+ 13 24.07%
A 13 24.07%
A- 10 18.52%
B+ 8 14.81%
B 5 9.26%
B- 2 3.70%
C+ 0 0%
C 1 1.85%
C- 1 1.85%
D+ 0 0%
D 0 0%
D- 1 1.85%
E 0 0%
F 0 0%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 13 2014, 06:29 PM   #151
Dennis
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

AvBaur wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
Examples?
This article features a number of examples from the Lord of the Rings movies: http://www.cartoonbrew.com/motion-ca...kis-99439.html

You should also keep in mind that a human's face and body look very different from an ape's. This means a lot of the captured performance can't be translated 1:1 and is open to interpretation by the animators.
I know all of that and know it very well. I also know that what was done on Lord Of The Rings has very little bearing on what's being done now in movies like the Planet Of The Apes films - it's the difference between "motion capture" and "performance capture."

I do think some of these performances deserve some kind of award, but one that should be shared by the actor and the animation team.
Nope.

Yes, animators have to figure out the coding to translate, oh, the motion of human mouth or neck muscles to a different geometry. Traditional prosthetic make-up work requires the design of appliances of particular materials at specific densities, thicknesses and shapes and utilizing whatever mechanical supports are required in order to best communicate the actor's performance. The craft of make-up is no less technical and demanding and requires no less artistry than digital make-up, and awards are given to recognize that.

So give the animators awards for animation or effects or whatever, but these actors deserve to be recognized and nominated as actors, for their performances alone - no different from playing characters under heavy make-up and costuming.

It'll happen, but frankly it'll happen not for a relatively little-known but brilliant character actor like Sirkis but rather because a big studio is pushing some A-lister for an Oscar in a movie where he/she is assisted by digital make-up.
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Old August 14 2014, 01:43 AM   #152
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

I don't agree. When looking at side-by-side comparisons of Andy Serkis on set and Caesar in the movie, it's pretty clear to me that there are subtle differences in expression that come down to acting choices made by the animators. The actors' contribution may be greater than the animators', but it's still a co-authored performance, not just "digital make-up."

It's even clearer with a case like "Avatar," where some of the Na'vi characters' emotions are illustrated by movements of their ears and tails, on which the actors had no influence.
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Old August 14 2014, 03:32 AM   #153
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

AvBaur wrote: View Post
The actors' contribution may be greater than the animators', but it's still a co-authored performance, not just "digital make-up."
Yes. Think of it like a more mobile equivalent of a painting based on a live model, like, say, Alex Ross's photorealistic paintings of DC or Marvel superheroes based on live models for reference. Ross uses the appearance and expression and pose of the models as the starting point of his work, but adds his own artistic style and interpretation to it as well as alterations to give the characters their exotic attributes or superpowers or to depict them in flight or other impossible actions. In the same way, performance-capture animators are creating an artwork that's modeled on a live actor's performance. Yes, the digital motion capture is an important tool in the process, but so is the still camera that a painter may use to take reference photos of a model. It, along with the footage of the actor's facial performance, is just the basic data that the artist uses as a starting point. It would be as wrong to confuse the performance-capture data with the finished digital character animation as it would be to confuse the reference photograph of the model with the final painting.
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Old August 14 2014, 06:09 PM   #154
Ryan8bit
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

I finally got around to seeing this. I haven't seen the first one in a while, but I think I had a better impression of it. It just seemed like there were a lot more touching character moments, and I'm kind of a sucker for Lithgow and his character's plight.

In this new movie, I didn't feel that as much from the human characters, but more so the apes. But their problems just weren't as relatable to me. I still thought it was a pretty good movie. Very entertaining.

And I realize it's a movie about smart apes fighting humans, but I think the whole ape with dual machine guns blazing riding a horse against the backdrop of fiery explosions was just a little bit too much for me.


Also, I noticed in the ratings that the lowest was given by BigJake. Yet I haven't seen a post from him explaining his position, which is odd considering how, um, articulate he usually is.
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Old January 1 2015, 08:03 AM   #155
I amnot Herbert
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

...just saw Dawn of the Planet of the Apes on blu-ray

I must say, it is pretty damn good, IMHO!

I think this movie will win awards across the board for sci-fi, as well as general categories... well done!

If Star Trek could get this treatment, I would be a HAPPY GUY!

DOTPOTA will probably beat GOTG, overall... and I LOVE GOTG!

If you like sci-fi, don't miss it!
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Old January 1 2015, 07:38 PM   #156
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

I amnot Herbert wrote: View Post
I think this movie will win awards across the board for sci-fi, as well as general categories... well done!
True, but it's a shame that Andy Serkis' performance will be ignored yet again. Toby Kobbell (Koba), too.
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Old January 1 2015, 07:59 PM   #157
I amnot Herbert
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

Emh wrote: View Post
I amnot Herbert wrote: View Post
I think this movie will win awards across the board for sci-fi, as well as general categories... well done!
True, but it's a shame that Andy Serkis' performance will be ignored yet again. Toby Kobbell (Koba), too.
well, let's HOPE NOT! =)

as you say: Caesar & Koba are the STARS of this EXCELLENT sci-fi film =)
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Old January 1 2015, 08:01 PM   #158
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

This movie was great. I saw it in theaters and it was totally worth it. I felt more for the apes than the humans as I'm sure it was intended. I can't wait for the next installment and to see where this story goes.
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Old January 2 2015, 02:26 AM   #159
JD
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

Emh wrote: View Post
I amnot Herbert wrote: View Post
I think this movie will win awards across the board for sci-fi, as well as general categories... well done!
True, but it's a shame that Andy Serkis' performance will be ignored yet again. Toby Kobbell (Koba), too.
If the Oscars/Golden Globes/ect. don't want to give motion capture actors best actor awards, then some of them really should make it a category of it's own. It's common enough now that it probably wouldn't be that hard to find nominees.
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Old January 2 2015, 03:03 AM   #160
I amnot Herbert
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

JD wrote: View Post
Emh wrote: View Post
I amnot Herbert wrote: View Post
I think this movie will win awards across the board for sci-fi, as well as general categories... well done!
True, but it's a shame that Andy Serkis' performance will be ignored yet again. Toby Kobbell (Koba), too.
If the Oscars/Golden Globes/ect. don't want to give motion capture actors best actor awards, then some of them really should make it a category of it's own. It's common enough now that it probably wouldn't be that hard to find nominees.
Agreed. their criteria is out of touch...

...at least it's not as ridiculous as the grammies!
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Old January 2 2015, 12:46 PM   #161
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

JD wrote: View Post
Emh wrote: View Post
I amnot Herbert wrote: View Post
I think this movie will win awards across the board for sci-fi, as well as general categories... well done!
True, but it's a shame that Andy Serkis' performance will be ignored yet again. Toby Kobbell (Koba), too.
If the Oscars/Golden Globes/ect. don't want to give motion capture actors best actor awards, then some of them really should make it a category of it's own. It's common enough now that it probably wouldn't be that hard to find nominees.
Can you name five that were worthy of note this year?
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Old January 2 2015, 09:33 PM   #162
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

At this point, they should just give Serkis an achievement award.
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Old January 3 2015, 05:08 AM   #163
Gaith
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

^ It'll happen some day. I don't see any rush. I'm sure Serkis isn't hurting for respect and admiration from those in his actual life.
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Old January 3 2015, 09:46 AM   #164
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

Tosk wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
If the Oscars/Golden Globes/ect. don't want to give motion capture actors best actor awards, then some of them really should make it a category of it's own. It's common enough now that it probably wouldn't be that hard to find nominees.
Can you name five that were worthy of note this year?
- Benedict Cumberbatch as Smaug in The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug
- Andy Serkis as Caesar in Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
- Toby Kebbel as Koba in Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
- Vin Diesel as Groot in Guardians of the Galaxy
- Bradley Cooper (voice) and Sean Gunn (MoCap) as Rocket in Guardians of the Galaxy
- Matt Cross and Lee Ross for Godzilla and the MUTOs in Godzilla (apparently Andy Serkis also consulted on that and acted as Godzilla's eyes, so toss in another one for him if that qualifies)
- I didn't see Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, but whoever the actors were in that

Obviously in each of those cases it shouldn't be just the MoCap actor receiving the award but also the entire digital effects team that brought the character to life.

If you want to expand the nomination pool even further, you could also include exceptional performances by actors who do purely voiceover work in the film but are not seen onscreen. For instance, Scarlett Johansson's performance in Her or Douglas Rain's performance as HAL in 2001 or any of the dozens of major animated film voiceover actors each year that are fully fleshed out characters who are indispensable to the film.
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Old January 3 2015, 09:59 AM   #165
J. Allen
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Grading & Discussion

The film was good, though I got a little bored about halfway through. If they would have trimmed about 15-20 minutes of the film, I think I would have liked it more. As it is, it's still a solid entry in the Apes saga, but for now I still like the first one the best.
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