RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,667
Posts: 5,429,311
Members: 24,818
Currently online: 442
Newest member: Thomas Eugene


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Enterprise

Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 21 2014, 12:09 AM   #16
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Would you get attachted to...

If I got a call from a lab one day that I had a kid I had never met I would assume cloning. It would be scary, but I would do my best to find out if my new piece of family needed anything. I wouldn't feel as strongly about a clone as I would offspring, but maybe that would change with time.

Jango certainly loved Boba but he chose to love him, and not all the zillions of other Jangos. Of course the zillions were altered and Boba wasn't, but there is still the choosing element. At some point I might have to choose to love a clone, or at least feel responsibility towards a clone whereas if if the person was actual offspring it would be much more automatic.

Picard had a little emo fit over Shinzon but he got over it. Maybe if Shinzon had been a bright young man at the academy when he met him it would have been different.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2014, 12:34 PM   #17
Gov Kodos
Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: Would you get attachted to...

Reeborg wrote: View Post
...your cloned baby (as quickly) seeing him/her at the age of 6 months for the first time as T'Pol&Trip did? Not being a father myself, I find that odd that you can really love a child just because it has your genes!? I rather believe that you need to build a relationship for that. I find the end of Terra Prime overly dramatic/emotional.
Vulcans being touch telepaths, and with Trip and T'Pol being bonded, they and the kid could have been very emotionally connected mentally in ways that could make such emotions quite believable as seen in the end of Terra Prime.
__________________
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star! Endora, Bewitched
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2014, 12:47 PM   #18
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Would you get attachted to...

But what if the Terra Prime folk had cloned one thousand T/T babies? It would utterly dilute their emotional response. That's one of the creepy things about cloning. Jango had to single out a clone and make him different than the thousands, that way he could love him.

It's weird to think you are standing in a massive space with thousand of your cloned babies in pods and you are not emotionally connecting. But if you just put one or two of the same babies in front of you, with the rest unknown to you, it's OUR BABY.

We are not salmon

I don't know, this worries me somehow. What would I do if faced with a cloned warehouse of me? It would piss me off, just give me a couple me and I will crank up the maternalism.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2014, 12:52 PM   #19
Gov Kodos
Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: Would you get attachted to...

teacake wrote: View Post
But what if the Terra Prime folk had cloned one thousand T/T babies? It would utterly dilute their emotional response. That's one of the creepy things about cloning. Jango had to single out a clone and make him different than the thousands, that way he could love him.

It's weird to think you are standing in a massive space with thousand of your cloned babies in pods and you are not emotionally connecting. But if you just put one or two of the same babies in front of you, with the rest unknown to you, it's OUR BABY.

We are not salmon
We aren't salmon but Spock did make the comparison about Vulcans.
__________________
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star! Endora, Bewitched
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2014, 12:53 PM   #20
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Would you get attachted to...

Ah yes but that was the doing of it, not the results of it.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2014, 01:29 PM   #21
Gov Kodos
Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: Would you get attachted to...

teacake wrote: View Post
Ah yes but that was the doing of it, not the results of it.
He's a guy after all. And, he's got Kirk.
__________________
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star! Endora, Bewitched
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2014, 01:38 PM   #22
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Would you get attachted to...

Now that's a clone baby I want to see!

Actually the universe would probably explode from the hotness
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2014, 08:54 AM   #23
Gov Kodos
Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: Would you get attachted to...

teacake wrote: View Post
Now that's a clone baby I want to see!

Actually the universe would probably explode from the hotness
Something like this? http://www.fanpop.com/fans/ebyabe/ga...y-quinto-morph
__________________
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star! Endora, Bewitched
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2014, 10:29 AM   #24
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Would you get attachted to...

Reeborg wrote: View Post
...your cloned baby (as quickly) seeing him/her at the age of 6 months for the first time as T'Pol&Trip did? Not being a father myself, I find that odd that you can really love a child just because it has your genes!? I rather believe that you need to build a relationship for that. I find the end of Terra Prime overly dramatic/emotional.
For them it's a symbol of what could be, and a child which will never get to grow up. I would be upset too.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2014, 05:32 PM   #25
Kevman7987
Commander
 
Kevman7987's Avatar
 
Location: Erie, PA, USA
View Kevman7987's Twitter Profile
Re: Would you get attachted to...

teacake wrote: View Post
But what if the Terra Prime folk had cloned one thousand T/T babies? It would utterly dilute their emotional response. That's one of the creepy things about cloning. Jango had to single out a clone and make him different than the thousands, that way he could love him.

It's weird to think you are standing in a massive space with thousand of your cloned babies in pods and you are not emotionally connecting. But if you just put one or two of the same babies in front of you, with the rest unknown to you, it's OUR BABY.

We are not salmon

I don't know, this worries me somehow. What would I do if faced with a cloned warehouse of me? It would piss me off, just give me a couple me and I will crank up the maternalism.
Stalin once said that a single person dying is a tragedy, millions dying is a statistic. This is a similar point; The smaller number is simple for us humans to wrap our heads around and tie our emotions to.

Though if I was presented with a warehouse of mees, I would raise them into an army and take over a small island nation, or something...
__________________
"Don't do it, Meat!"
"Don't do it, Cheese!"
Kevman7987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6 2014, 01:06 AM   #26
bluedana
Moderator
 
bluedana's Avatar
 
Location: on the raggedy edge with bluedana
Re: Would you get attachted to...

Reeborg wrote: View Post
[Would you get attached to]...your cloned baby (as quickly) seeing him/her at the age of 6 months for the first time as T'Pol&Trip did? Not being a father myself, I find that odd that you can really love a child just because it has your genes!? I rather believe that you need to build a relationship for that. I find the end of Terra Prime overly dramatic/emotional.
FWIW, I fell in love with the picture of my son at 3 months and knew he was mine the moment the adoption agency social worker showed it to me. I then moved heaven and earth to get him.
__________________
Fall seven times. Stand up eight. -- Japanese proverb.
bluedana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 21 2014, 03:26 AM   #27
ReedEnterprise
Captain
 
ReedEnterprise's Avatar
 
Location: Alpha Quadrant
Re: Would you get attachted to...

teacake wrote: View Post
On tv people seem to magically bond with their magic cloned child. I think IRL it would take a considerable amount of processing for some people to get to that point.

I think the T/T baby bond was also about their feelings for each other. Here were their feelings, made manifest in a miracle infant (remember they didn't think at the time that Vulcans and humans could breed). Add in that the infant was in danger and the powerful feelings they had towards her make sense.

They had also met and said goodbyes of a sort to another child of theirs in E2.

I agree with this in the fact it was about their feelings for each other more so than the baby.

But being a mom, the second I saw my child, I was in love. A total bond. Though T'Pol didn't carry this child, knowing that she did indeed make her, I could see them easily falling that quickly in love with her.
__________________
"Reed Alert, that's not bad"...Malcolm Reed
ReedEnterprise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 21 2014, 03:31 AM   #28
borgboy
Fleet Captain
 
borgboy's Avatar
 
Re: Would you get attachted to...

Babies are easy to love, and this a child of a couple in love. So it's not just her/his child, but their child with the person they love. I don't find it all that hard to believe they came to love the child quickly.
__________________
Resistance is futile
borgboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2014, 07:47 PM   #29
ssosmcin
Rear Admiral
 
ssosmcin's Avatar
 
Location: ssosmcin
Re: Would you get attachted to...

If it makes a difference: my stepson had a daughter 6 years ago. The very first moment I saw her, I fell head over heels in love with her. She is not related to me by blood at all.

So, yeah, I buy it.
__________________
"Tranya is people!"
ssosmcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31 2014, 01:18 AM   #30
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Would you get attachted to...

Reeborg wrote: View Post
Yanks wrote: View Post
Reeborg wrote: View Post
...your cloned baby (as quickly) seeing him/her at the age of 6 months for the first time as T'Pol&Trip did? Not being a father myself, I find that odd that you can really love a child just because it has your genes!? I rather believe that you need to build a relationship for that. I find the end of Terra Prime overly dramatic/emotional.
Oh for God's sake yes. I wouldn't hesitate for a second. You don't "build relationships" with children, they are just there. You love them unconditionally.

I LOVED this episode for many reasons, one being we got to see the "motherly" side of T'Pol.
So if you meet your cloned child without knowing it's your DNA you'd still and immediately love it as your own child? Or is it just the "knowing" that it's yours that will make you love it immediately?
Cloning just means that the child has one biological parent instead of two. It's still your offspring, so I don't see why a cloned child would produce a meaningfully different emotional reaction in his/her mother or father than a child produced through sexual reproduction.

teacake wrote: View Post
But what if the Terra Prime folk had cloned one thousand T/T babies? It would utterly dilute their emotional response. That's one of the creepy things about cloning.
I mean, realistically, humanoid cloning could never be that simple. It would always be just as difficult to clone and bring to term a single clone as it would be any other child. Mass cloning a la Star Wars: Episode II is so implausible as to be fantasy.

But I also wouldn't expect human psychology to be capable of emotionally processing such a thing the way it can a single child, even a single child produced under extraordinary circumstances. Human beings have never evolved to reproduce in such vast numbers, so it makes sense that the human heart wouldn't know how to cope with such a prospect.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Reeborg wrote: View Post
...your cloned baby (as quickly) seeing him/her at the age of 6 months for the first time as T'Pol&Trip did? Not being a father myself, I find that odd that you can really love a child just because it has your genes!? I rather believe that you need to build a relationship for that. I find the end of Terra Prime overly dramatic/emotional.
For them it's a symbol of what could be, and a child which will never get to grow up. I would be upset too.
Exactly. Even if they never got the chance to bond with Elizabeth to the extent at they would have wanted to, the situation itself is still unbelievably sad.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.