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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old July 28 2014, 08:29 AM   #61
fireproof78
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

martok2112 wrote: View Post
fireproof78 wrote: View Post
martok2112 wrote: View Post
Hate to say it, but fandom makes no contribution at all as of late, except to bemoan what they didn't like, as if they were the only ones who could truly appreciate whatever said franchise is trying to offer. Having watched "Trekkies" and "The People vs. George Lucas" only reinforces my thinking on this.
I hate to quibble, because I really agree with your larger point about fandom but James Cawley's Star Trek Phase II project was one of the inspirations for Abrams as he began on Trek 09. Obviously, there is now a long and storied history between them, but the initial development, and interest was partially built due to fan productions. I say partially because a movie was coming regardless of what the fans said, but there was a small contribution. Take it for what it's worth

I was always surprised by the aspects of fandom that would wish Abrams and Co. ill at every turn. It's one thing to not like a film, or the direction it is going, etc. It is quite another (and this is not directed at anyone here) to see Abrams called a racist, a bigot, a sexist, an idiot, a destroyer of Trek, and a hack. No offense, but that doesn't exactly inspire confidence

Now, if you will excuse me, I must go read up on my Starfleet Technical Manual and Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise
Those are quite good points.

And yes, that was another reason I turned my back on fandom....because of those who seem to think that just because someone made a movie in a way they didn't like, that suddenly there has to be personal attacks and death threats made against the producers, writers, crew, what have you. (I mean, yeesh! Supposedly, Katee Sackhoff received death threats from outraged original series Galactica fanatics when she said: "Hi, I'm Katee Sackhoff. I play Starbuck on Battlestar Galactica. Deal with it." I don't know how much truth there is to that, but, I cannot put it past the darker side of fandom.)

I'm not saying that all fans are like that....but it's safer to simply dissociate from the overall stigma.

I simply love Star Trek (and lots of other sci-fi shows/movies). Yes, I collect miniatures and such so I can do my own 3D CG models and movies. Yes, I get tech manuals and publications when I can. Yes, I wear Star Wars, Galactica, and other sci-fi t-shirts. Yes, I get the blu-ray sets when available, even if I already have them on DVD. I just am not a fan.

Heh...I used to have Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise in the late 80's, before the whole thing with FASA blew up in the early 90's, and Parmount did not renew FASA's Star Trek RPG license. That was an entertaining read, if not an entirely accurate one. I still wish I had it. I used to have the old Franz Joseph Tech Manual too. And the TNG and DS9 TM's as well. So I say read on and enjoy!
Well, my hat's off to you for doing 3d models. I hope to see your work some day

Actually, something you might be interested in, is that the Mr. Scott's Guide was updated as part the new films at the time, FF and UC (I think), so it shows the refit and all the various parts, and monster maroon uniforms. Quite fun.

Yeah, fandom gets strange, to me. But, being on a Star Trek board (again, not this one) and hearing people slam Abrams again and again, was too much to take.

I guess this is how Star Wars fans feel when people take on the prequels...I don't know.
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Old July 28 2014, 03:27 PM   #62
davidant32
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

Here is a quick option to catch up!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0S8rmcRVOA
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Old July 29 2014, 10:52 AM   #63
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

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You should watch the film Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan before watching Star Trek: Into Darkness. Then you'll either face-palm during Into Darkness, or you'll think what they did is really cool. I've discovered here that there is no in between and people are very passionate one way or the other about it. Either way, with Wrath of Khan you'll at least witness the original cast at their best in one of the best Trek films ever (the best in my opinion).

Most people will face palm.
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Old July 29 2014, 12:34 PM   #64
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

xavier wrote: View Post
dub wrote: View Post
You should watch the film Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan before watching Star Trek: Into Darkness. Then you'll either face-palm during Into Darkness, or you'll think what they did is really cool. I've discovered here that there is no in between and people are very passionate one way or the other about it. Either way, with Wrath of Khan you'll at least witness the original cast at their best in one of the best Trek films ever (the best in my opinion).

Most people will face palm.
In your opinion.
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Old July 30 2014, 05:20 AM   #65
fireproof78
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

martok2112 wrote: View Post
xavier wrote: View Post
dub wrote: View Post
You should watch the film Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan before watching Star Trek: Into Darkness. Then you'll either face-palm during Into Darkness, or you'll think what they did is really cool. I've discovered here that there is no in between and people are very passionate one way or the other about it. Either way, with Wrath of Khan you'll at least witness the original cast at their best in one of the best Trek films ever (the best in my opinion).

Most people will face palm.
In your opinion.
Agreed. One does not have to preclude the other any more than one should watch Moby Dick before watching TWOK.

Both TWOK and Into Darkness had their moments, and strong characters that drove the story. ID certainly had it's problems, but the fact they reused a moment from TWOK does not take away from the original nor does it take away from the characters in ID. Enjoyment of the two are not mutually exclusive.
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Old July 30 2014, 06:44 AM   #66
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

Indeed....I thoroughly enjoy both TWOK and Into Darkness.
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Old July 30 2014, 08:22 AM   #67
Gov Karnstein
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

LanCo96 wrote: View Post
Greetings.

I've recently started watching Star Trek. After some debate with some friends, I decided to begin watching TOS. However, I've been told I should watch all off the other Star Trek stuff first before watching Star Trek (2009) and into Darkness. The thing is I really wanna watch the newer films. My question is, does it matter if I watch the two newer Star Trek films before the rest?
Not in the least, you don't even need to watch TOS to enjoy them. It can be fun to watch the movies after TOS so you can look for beats that reference back to TOS but nothing in the stories they tell requires knowing any of the previous shows in order to enjoy them. Arguably, it might be better to watch them without seeing the previous shows so the films can speak for themselves.
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Old July 30 2014, 06:15 PM   #68
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

Yes. You need to watch everything else first.

Twice.

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Old July 30 2014, 07:18 PM   #69
dub
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

fireproof78 wrote: View Post
the fact they reused a moment from TWOK does not take away from the original nor does it take away from the characters in ID.
A moment? Wow. Where is the honesty police now?
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Old July 30 2014, 08:12 PM   #70
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

dub wrote: View Post
fireproof78 wrote: View Post
the fact they reused a moment from TWOK does not take away from the original nor does it take away from the characters in ID.
A moment? Wow. Where is the honesty police now?
Yes. A moment. (A "moment" is a vaguely defined, short span of time--EXACTLY appropriate for what we saw in STID compared to TWOK.)
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Old July 30 2014, 09:16 PM   #71
dub
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

Ovation wrote: View Post
dub wrote: View Post
fireproof78 wrote: View Post
the fact they reused a moment from TWOK does not take away from the original nor does it take away from the characters in ID.
A moment? Wow. Where is the honesty police now?
Yes. A moment. (A "moment" is a vaguely defined, short span of time--EXACTLY appropriate for what we saw in STID compared to TWOK.)
Several scenes can be considered "a moment." Well, I learned something new today.

Anyway, I agree that STID's "moment" doesn't have any impact on TWOK. But for me, TWOK did have an impact on my experience with STID. For me that wasn't a good moment, and it frankly felt longer than a moment for me. But I get it that the vast majority of people loved it. And a lot of people who saw TWOK years ago love STID all the more for what was done. That's great! I was just trying to say that most people seem to feel strongly one way or the other about that "moment." At least that's what I gathered, but I was wrong about "moment" so I could be wrong about that too!

I'm not whining, just opining. I will watch the next film and hope it's better (for me)! I say that with sincerity. And honestly because of how it made me feel at the time, I haven't rewatched STID since I saw it in the theater, but I plan to do that at some point. Perhaps my opinion will change whenever the moment comes that I decide to watch it again.
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Old July 31 2014, 06:34 AM   #72
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

dub wrote: View Post
Ovation wrote: View Post
dub wrote: View Post

A moment? Wow. Where is the honesty police now?
Yes. A moment. (A "moment" is a vaguely defined, short span of time--EXACTLY appropriate for what we saw in STID compared to TWOK.)
Several scenes can be considered "a moment." Well, I learned something new today.

Anyway, I agree that STID's "moment" doesn't have any impact on TWOK. But for me, TWOK did have an impact on my experience with STID. For me that wasn't a good moment, and it frankly felt longer than a moment for me. But I get it that the vast majority of people loved it. And a lot of people who saw TWOK years ago love STID all the more for what was done. That's great! I was just trying to say that most people seem to feel strongly one way or the other about that "moment." At least that's what I gathered, but I was wrong about "moment" so I could be wrong about that too!

I'm not whining, just opining. I will watch the next film and hope it's better (for me)! I say that with sincerity. And honestly because of how it made me feel at the time, I haven't rewatched STID since I saw it in the theater, but I plan to do that at some point. Perhaps my opinion will change whenever the moment comes that I decide to watch it again.
Perhaps moment was a poor choice in terms. Perhaps scene is a better descriptor. However, moment served my vague purpose, because there are some who say that ID ripped off TWOK completely and is actually just a poor attempt. In my opinion, that is incorrect but the fact that they used that scene from TWOK makes the comparison unavoidable.

For me, ID is enjoyable because of Kirk. The characters make this film for me. I am in that scene with Kirk dying because it fits the character so well that I buy it.

But, I understand that it is also pulling on the nostalgia factor a little bit too heavily and could have had a similar moment without the scripting from TWOK. I can agree to that. So, I hope that your next viewing is more enjoyable because the film definitely is worth the time
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Old July 31 2014, 12:49 PM   #73
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

If you see Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan or "Space Seed" before Into Darkness, you'll only end up being annoyed. I'd be very interested in hearing how Mr. Singh works the other way around...
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Old July 31 2014, 01:25 PM   #74
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
If you see Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan or "Space Seed" before Into Darkness, you'll only end up being annoyed. I'd be very interested in hearing how Mr. Singh works the other way around...


Hardly the only possibility, as I (and many others) were anything but annoyed (and I've seen both of those Khan stories dozens of times).
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Old July 31 2014, 01:27 PM   #75
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Re: Do I need to watch all of Trek before watching the 2 new films?

Ovation wrote: View Post
ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
If you see Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan or "Space Seed" before Into Darkness, you'll only end up being annoyed. I'd be very interested in hearing how Mr. Singh works the other way around...


Hardly the only possibility, as I (and many others) were anything but annoyed (and I've seen both of those Khan stories dozens of times).
Yup.
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