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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old July 29 2014, 03:28 PM   #61
Joel_Kirk
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Location: Chillin' on Ligon II...
Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Disco wrote: View Post
I think where I disagree is your point that what Jellico was doing was needed. the Enterprise was one of the most advanced ships staffed by some of the best crew in the fleet who were battle hardened not just explorers so why would Jellico need to change so many things?

A captain has to lead, manage and direct but he does not need to be authoritarian.

I felt his command style was not required and it made him seem like he was an ass.
However, it was - at the time - his ship, the same way another Admiral - James T. Kirk - got the Enterprise from another Captain (William Decker) and changed things to his own specifications.

Each commander is different.

I'm sure if Sisko took command of the Enterprise or Admiral Janeway took command, things would be set a certain way until the crew became familiar with one another.

Interestingly, in Season 1 Picard was a bit of an ass anyway, and not just certain episodes. He changed into speechPicard - albeit still self-righteous - in later seasons, then actionPicard in the movies.
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Old July 29 2014, 03:40 PM   #62
Kevman7987
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Disco wrote: View Post
I think where I disagree is your point that what Jellico was doing was needed. the Enterprise was one of the most advanced ships staffed by some of the best crew in the fleet who were battle hardened not just explorers so why would Jellico need to change so many things?

A captain has to lead, manage and direct but he does not need to be authoritarian.

I felt his command style was not required and it made him seem like he was an ass.
Are we sure people don't not like Jellico because he was portrayed by Ronny Cox? A man who plays an ass in a position of authority extremely well?
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Old July 30 2014, 01:14 AM   #63
trekshark
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Disco wrote: View Post
Jellico was an asshole. No man management skills, authoritarian leadership, no attempt to work with the crew or earn their respect. I've never served in the military but surely military officers still listen to their subordinates views and suggestions and don't come into post and change everything?
I don't agree. Jellico knew exactly what he was doing, he was an expert at dealing with Cardassians, and he simply DID NOT HAVE TIME to get to be the crew's friend.
I agree about not having time. He was assigned command of a ship that might very well be on the front line of a new shooting war with little or no support in just a few days. He needed results immediately.
Maybe he could have handled a few things differently but the time and pressure constraints were enormous
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Old July 30 2014, 02:07 AM   #64
Ithekro
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

I've seen managers come in and first thing start to change everything.
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Old July 30 2014, 02:09 AM   #65
Armored Saint
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Admiral Erik Pressman, he sacrificed most of his crew when he was Captain to pursue his illegal miltary fanatic agenda.
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Old July 30 2014, 05:57 AM   #66
Makarov
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

I don't agree that Jellico was an efficient captain, maybe in other situations but definitely not in Chain of Command. He was unable to avoid conflicts that led to him relieving his own first officer, even though Troi had already warned him. Then after that, he asks everyone on the ship to fly the shuttle before he asks the best man. That's not very efficient.
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Old July 30 2014, 05:30 PM   #67
Armored Saint
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

He was just unlucky the best pilot on this ship was also the XO. There was also in the balance the loyalty and the friendship the other skilled pilots had toward Riker. Geordi would have also done a perfect job, but he did another great job by fighting the polarisation between Riker and Jellico.

Lieutenant Commander Christopher Hobson was definetely an asshole. Of course, he finally learned to respect Data and was concerned about his crewmates, but his conception of "that race souldn't do this job" has a name: RACISM.

That dear Dexter Remmick was also an asshole. No matter if he was already controlled by the parasite, he abused his position during his investigation on the Enterprise.
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Old July 30 2014, 05:53 PM   #68
jimbotron
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

One of his comments was about how a Klingon wouldn't work as a ship's counselor. I'd love to see that in action.
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Old July 30 2014, 06:12 PM   #69
T'Girl
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

^ Worf: "You have achieved ten centimeters, you may now give birth."



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Old July 30 2014, 08:40 PM   #70
Ithekro
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

I think that was a respect/fear response. Human women in labor are scarier than any Klingon, and could probably kill a Klingon if provoked. At least that seems to be Worf's impression.
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Old July 31 2014, 05:40 PM   #71
Marsden
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

My pick for the thread is Cmdr. William Riker

When his old man is replaced by a new captain, he whines and is obstinate. He gets himself relieved, instead of stepping up and helping the crew. Even if the new boss was Dick Jones.

Or maybe it wasn't missing the old man, but that he didn't take over himself, even though he was given multiple opportunities to be in command himself. The writers didn't want "us" to side against these decisions, though, so they helpfully killed off all three previously offered ships.
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Old July 31 2014, 11:35 PM   #72
Makarov
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

To be fair Riker was just trying to save Picard which is why Jellico got pissed off. Imagine if Kirk was in Riker's position, there's no way he would follow a superior officer's order to let a friend die...
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Old August 1 2014, 12:11 AM   #73
Chairslinger
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

jimbotron wrote: View Post
One of his comments was about how a Klingon wouldn't work as a ship's counselor. I'd love to see that in action.
If I recall, the Titan novels introduce a Tellerite counselor where the sessions are basically the patient and doctor arguing with one another

Anyway, I also think that they took the "evolved human" ideal to the point of obnoxiousness in s1 of TNG. Culminating in The Neutral Zone.

They rectified this more than once in later episodes like Family and Lily's speech to Picard in First Contact. I think they got a grasp on what it means to better mankind without completely taking the humanity out of it.

I am on the fence about Jellico. I also lean towards him simply being a hardass. And since he is the captain, the crew should have to mold themselves to his style rather than the other way around.

However, other captains in the series are shown to have flaws. And I consider Jellico's treatment of Riker to be the same. He was uncompromising to the point of hurting his command. He was a good captain, but he wasn't perfect.

His treatment as an admiral in some of Star Trek lit later on makes him a much more relatable character without taking much of his edge off imho.
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Old August 1 2014, 03:38 AM   #74
jimbotron
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

I don't mind the hardass characters (Jellico, Nechayev) who show that they're not one-dimensional characters. Even Pressman showed some nuance, which I attribute on the actor's performance. Poorly written one-note guys like the admiral in Ensign Ro on the other hand, I'd wish characters like those were fleshed out more, because I can't take those flat characters seriously.
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Old August 1 2014, 04:33 AM   #75
T'Girl
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Re: StarFleet Officers that are A..h...s

Makarov wrote: View Post
... Kirk ... there's no way he would follow a superior officer's order to let a friend die...
Galileo Seven.

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